Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Engineering Dept. => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on August 18, 2019, 03:17:29 AM
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A thread for your air-to-air missile related questions, ideas etc
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To start with, what if the US decided to do similar to the USSR and have both IR and SARH guided versions of their missiles. I know there were such for the aIM-4 and even the AIM-9 albeit the latter in small numbers. What about a IR guided AIM-7 though?
There was the dual mode seeker AIM/RIM-7R which integrated a passive infrared seeker in its radome for terminal guidance but this isn't quite the same thing.
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That would be an interesting whiff to model. I wonder if you'd use a scaled-up version of an early model Sidewinder seeker, or one of the later versions?
Or how about the British doing the same thing with their IR-guided missiles and developing SARH versions?
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That would be an interesting whiff to model. I wonder if you'd use a scaled-up version of an early model Sidewinder seeker, or one of the later versions?
Depends on the era I suppose.
Or how about the British doing the same thing with their IR-guided missiles and developing SARH versions?
Well, the British did propose a variant of the IR guided Red Top called Blue Dolphin (or Blue Jay Mk. V,) using SARH for capability similar to the AIM-7 Sparrow, but it was cancelled. In an alternate reality, one could see British birds (such as the Sea Vixen below) carrying a pair of IR guided Red Tops and a pair of SARH guided Blue Dolphins ala Soviet style:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zNdTiht95Io/XFDM5Y-cwdI/AAAAAAAAiA8/wAa64k62UlInpB05a0OkOe3cCQD0sG5ZgCLcBGAs/s1600/hawker_seavixen.jpg)
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Seeing that America adopted the AGM-78 Standard ARM, which itself was adapted from the RIM-66 SM-1 Standard SAM missile to an air-to-air missile - AIM-97 Seekbat to counter the perceived capabilities of the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25 Foxbat and to arm both the F-15 Eagle and F-4 Phantom II, could the British adapt it's Sea Dart SAM likewise??
M.A.D
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Thanks to War Thunder I found a renewed interest in the SRAAM. One version of the Hawker Hunter in game is available with a pair of SRAAM Tail Dog AAM pods containing two missiles each. While the game play is a bit dodgy at times the podded missiles are very interesting and got me to wondering about how to come up with my own interpretation of this weapon based on parts I have in the spares box. Now mind you, the bits I had were acquired years ago from several Hasegawa and Fujimi 1:48th scale Hughes/MDD/Boeing 500/OH-6 Cayuse kits that contained the optional TOW missile system where the missiles were enclosed in a streamlined pod shape containing two missiles each. I had the bits sitting for years before taking time out to trim them up and glue the pods back to back and created something interesting but yet without purpose. After War Thunder released the Hawker Hunter/SRAAM version for the game it dawned on me that maybe my missile pod could pass for something similar for the Hunter or some other aircraft from the period.
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Some photos of the SRAAM Tail Dog installation you are talking about for those unaware:
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner066/SRAAM_zps6dtphymh.jpg)
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner066/SRAAM-3_zpsbm8kaopu.jpg)
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner066/IMG_1255_zpsvb5zmlnj.jpg)(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner066/IMG_1256_zps1cya2cfp.jpg)
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner066/0574HunterF6_zpsg6hz0vw5.jpg)
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I believe ASRAAM was developed from Taildog. I recall reading that one of the development shots turned so quickly after firing, it almost took the nose off the Hunter that fired it.
The thing I liked about the design was the launch tube, making a retractable pod, as used for air to air rockets, a possibility.
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I believe Tail Dog led to SRAAM which in turn led to ASRAAM.
Another photo:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/SRAAM_launcher.jpg)
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Tail Dog was a US programme. SRAAM was a British programme. Both were in competition to each other. Tail Dog was IIRC dropped in favour of improved Sidewinders. SRAAM dropped in favour of a joint European programme which was ASRAAM.
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Tail Dog was a US programme. SRAAM was a British programme. Both were in competition to each other. Tail Dog was IIRC dropped in favour of improved Sidewinders. SRAAM dropped in favour of a joint European programme which was ASRAAM.
Errr...no, The Taildog we are referring to here was a British program by Hawker Siddeley Dynamics:
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968%20-%202623.html (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968%20-%202623.html)
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969%20-%202212.html (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969%20-%202212.html)
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1970/1970%20-%200716.html?search=taildog (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1970/1970%20-%200716.html?search=taildog)
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How about scale-o-rama'ing air-to-air missiles? In some cases, the airframes would lend themselves well to applications in bigger (or smaller) scales.
For example:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49628643976_9ac981cdb9_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iBvLPs)J32-Lansen-AIM-4-Falcon-at-different-scales (https://flic.kr/p/2iBvLPs) by Motschke (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151156765@N03/), on Flickr
The small AIM-4 Falcon looks tiny on a Lansen in the same scale. The 1/48 version looks quite usable. The 1/32 version might be too big even for a big (biggish) fighter like the Lansen. Or it could be a version with quite a long range.
I suppose this would work just as well for air-to-surface missiles.
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Alex, I'll take 1/48 AIM-4 Falcon on 1/72 J32 Lansen for $500 please.*
Thanks for putting this together.
* It's "Jeopardy" Joke
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Interesting scalorama study. One for lower cost practice firing. Standard version. Long range version. :smiley:
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How about scale-o-rama'ing air-to-air missiles? In some cases, the airframes would lend themselves well to applications in bigger (or smaller) scales.
<snip>
The small AIM-4 Falcon looks tiny on a Lansen in the same scale. The 1/48 version looks quite usable. The 1/32 version might be too big even for a big (biggish) fighter like the Lansen. Or it could be a version with quite a long range.
The 1:48th Falcon on your 1:72nd scale Lansen looks the best of the three. A shame I don't have any 1:32nd scale Falcons to test out on my 1:48th scale Lansens.
I suppose this would work just as well for air-to-surface missiles.
@Moritz --- The Lansen was capable of carrying a pair of the RB-04 AShM and those things are not tiny. Your 1:32nd scale AIM-4 Falcon could work but perhaps a distant cousin of the Falcon might serve your purposes better (AGM-65 Maverick). Or if you chose to stay with the Falcon, for use as an AAM then by all means, keep it and make it so.
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@nobody in particular but in regards to the ASRAAM/Tail Dog:
Tail Dog was a US programme. SRAAM was a British programme. Both were in competition to each other. Tail Dog was IIRC dropped in favour of improved Sidewinders. SRAAM dropped in favour of a joint European programme which was ASRAAM.
Errr...no, The Taildog we are referring to here was a British program by Hawker Siddeley Dynamics:
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968%20-%202623.html (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968%20-%202623.html)
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969%20-%202212.html (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969%20-%202212.html)
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1970/1970%20-%200716.html?search=taildog (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1970/1970%20-%200716.html?search=taildog)
I have a number of TOW missile launchers sourced from the 1:48th scale Hasegawa, Fujimi, and Academy OH-6/H-500 Cayuse helicopter kits that have been taking up space with no particular purpose until now. A few years back I took a pair from each of the kits and assembled the aerodynamic shell that covered the TOW missile container/tube and glued the halves back to back. The end result appeals to my interests in weapons but had not really put the concept any further until realizing that the ASRAAM is about the same diameter (in the tube) as the TOW missile so now I have three sets of what-if ASRAAM launchers that need the holes filled so they appear to be loaded. The other TOW missile launcher parts are not really compatible with the concept I have in mind so were not used. When I get the chance, I will get an image or two of the things as they are now to share.
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Interesting discussion. Of course in the real world you essentially see this (visually at least) with the following:
AIM-4:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/AIM_4_HAFB_Museum.jpg/2880px-AIM_4_HAFB_Museum.jpg)
Length 1.98 m (6 ft 6 in)
Diameter 163 mm (6.4 in)
AIM-54:
(https://www.airvectors.net/avsdaam_10.jpg)
Length 4.0 m (13 ft)
Diameter 380 mm(15 in)
And other variations including the AAM-N-10 Eagle (one you lose the booster):
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSOMd5iOFSefaxE5G4Uhzek5ORCCKxNgPmNfBwvzzFITPwmuEKy)
Length 3.53 m (11 ft 7 in) without booster
Diameter 360 mm (14 in )
AGM-65 Maverick (as Jeff mentioned):
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/AGM-65_Maverick_MG_1382.jpg/2880px-AGM-65_Maverick_MG_1382.jpg)
Length 249 cm (8 ft 2 in)
Diameter 30 cm (12 in)
AGM-124 Wasp:
(https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/agm-124-image01.jpg)
Length : 1.52 m (5 ft)
Diameter : 20 cm (8 in)
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Random idea:
MIM-72 Chaparral but with AIM-4 derived missiles rather than AIM-9
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/MIM-72_Chaparral_07.jpg)
but with these:
(https://i2.wp.com/theaircache.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2012/07/aim-4-family.jpg)
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A short video put out by the USAF AFRL on their MUTANT (Missile UtilityTransformation via Articulated Nose Technology) program. Catchy name MUTANT but it deserves to be called something much more related to what it does. Something with a lot of SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS's perhaps? SSSSSSSnake? :smiley:
YouTube video link: Youtube > AFResearchLab Channel > AFRL MUTANT (https://youtu.be/wSlwMcEGZhc)
(https://afresearchlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/mutant_image2.png)
(Image source: USAF AFRL MUTANT (https://afresearchlab.com/technology/mutant/))
Link to USAF AFRL MUTANT Fact File and PDF download link (https://afresearchlab.com/technology/mutant/)
In the video above one of the test units is shown on a high-speed test track and the seeker is attached/mated to the motor section of an AGM-114 Hellfire missile. The animation in the video showing the MUTANT intercepting a cruise missile appears to be based on the AIM-120 AMRAAM. I am going to guess that the flexible connection is the same diameter for both missiles which does make sense since the AIM-120 and AGM-114 are roughly the same diameter.
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I like that! :smiley:
Perhaps some small fins on the head to improve tracking onto the target? ???
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I have some huge 1/32nd scale Phoenix missiles I’m trying to reimagine as maybe long range cruise missiles or some such thing. In 1/72 scale they would be ginormous. Or some crappy ancient Tamiya 1/48th scale Mavericks. Any thoughts? The Phoenixes are nicely detailed so if someone can make good use of them I’ll send them along.
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I have some huge 1/32nd scale Phoenix missiles I’m trying to reimagine as maybe long range cruise missiles or some such thing. In 1/72 scale they would be ginormous. Or some crappy ancient Tamiya 1/48th scale Mavericks. Any thoughts? The Phoenixes are nicely detailed so if someone can make good use of them I’ll send them along.
See attached image for an easy conversion of two missiles to create a larger missile. I have done this with 1/48th and 1/32nd scale AIM-54 Phoenix and it was much easier to work with the larger 1/32nd scale parts (more to hold on to while modifying).
The missile in the attached image is 1/48th scale from the Monogram F-14 kit.
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That makes me think of a tank mounted ground launched Phoenix……!
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That makes me think of a tank mounted ground launched Phoenix……!
Or find one of those odd scale Revell (now Atlantis Models) BOMARC or Nike Hercules kits. Recommend the Nike Hercules as the launcher arm does not look out of place with the 1/32nd scale double stage Phoenix on it.