McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration

[Daryl J.]

 :)

It tempts to pick up the Hasegawa two-seater, convert it to square wing tips and build something akin to the above. 

Edit:
And the weapons on the French Eagle are.....?
Thanks,
Daryl J.

[kitnut617]

:)

Edit:
And the weapons on the French Eagle are.....?
Thanks,
Daryl J.

The small ones are Magic 550's, the large one are Magic Super 530F's (could be the 530D)

[GTX_Admin]

Here you go…from the real world:

[taiidantomcat]

Nice, I had only seen one other picture of that F-15 before that one  :)

[kitnut617]

Apparently, this is the same aircraft which some of you would recognize.  Got the Monogram kit of this too

[kitnut617]

A question to those who might know;

Was there any other nose cone considered for the F-15, like a different one for a different radar ---
Like would an F-4 nose cone work --

I've read recently that the RAF had considered the F-15 but with Brit' equipment so I'm wondering if they would have got a specific nose cone.

[GTX_Admin]

I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that a different radar other than the AN/APG-63 and later AN/APG-70 was ever considered.  Even if they were, I think one would try to keep the same radome for aerodynamic reasons.  Perhaps some of the British equipment would relate to other subsystems such as radios, RWRs, EW etc?

[Weaver]

My understanding is that the UK requirement would have been for a fully combat-capable two-seater, so the RAF would have wanted B/D airframes with a substantial re-work of the rear cockpit. The radar would have remained the same however. The cost of doing this was one of the factors that counted against the F-15 when decisions were being made in the early 1970s.

[kitnut617]

Well from what I read, the F-15 would have been cheaper than the alternative, which was the Panavia Tornado, which hadn't even got off the drawing board at the time. There were also plans to have an assembly plant in Europe for the F-15.  The decision to go with the Tornado was to keep the UK current with fighter design and to keep it's designers in country.

[Weaver]

There's a lot on the Tornado ADV decision in Battle Flight by Chris Gibson. Re the F-15, the factors were:

1. At the time the decision had to be made, there was a real doubt that F-15 production would continue past 1980, but the British Phantom replacement couldn't be afforded before 1985 due to the Tornado IDS program eating all the funds until then.

2. To meet RAF requirements, the F-15 would have to be substantially modified, with a fully-equipped rear cockpit for a WSO and probe-and-drogue refuelling.

3. The higher fuel consumption of the F-15 (and the F-14) relative to the Tornado would require a 30-40% increase in the RAF's tanker fleet, thus adding to their effective cost beyond the unit cost of the aircraft themselves.

4. Accepting the McDonnell Douglas proposal for European F-15 manufacture (which was only for the standard single-seater, by the way) would have effectively wiped out the UK's ability to design and manufacture advanced military aircraft. The UK aerospace industry employed some 200,000 people in 1973.

[elmayerle]

I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that a different radar other than the AN/APG-63 and later AN/APG-70 was ever considered.  Even if they were, I think one would try to keep the same radome for aerodynamic reasons.  Perhaps some of the British equipment would relate to other subsystems such as radios, RWRs, EW etc?

It would be interesting to equip a RAF two-seater with the AN/APG-64 proposed for the F-15N that would include the ability to operate Phoenix missiles, or a long-range equivalent.  Perhaps also fitted with a joint RR/GE (possibly SNECMA, too) variant of the F110?  I add SNECMA because there is commonality with the CFM56 there.

[Volkodav]

Heard the same thing ref F-15 production not continuing past 1980 in terms of a RAAF buy.  Basically the F-15 was eliminated as it was seen as an orphan that would soon be out of production, the F-16 was eliminated due to the distaste the RAAF had developed for single engined aircraft due to Mirage losses, leaving only the F/A-18.

That aside an ex-RAAF colleague of mine insisted that Australia came close to ordering a split buy of 50 F-15 and 50 AV-8B in the late 70s early 80s to replace the Mirage and the Skyhawks before the carrier replacement was canned.  Don't know if there was any truth in it but considering the Mirage was used as both a fighter and an attack platform I could see that a mix of air superiority fighters and attack aircraft may have been desired to replace them.

[kitnut617]

I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that a different radar other than the AN/APG-63 and later AN/APG-70 was ever considered.  Even if they were, I think one would try to keep the same radome for aerodynamic reasons.  Perhaps some of the British equipment would relate to other subsystems such as radios, RWRs, EW etc?

It would be interesting to equip a RAF two-seater with the AN/APG-64 proposed for the F-15N that would include the ability to operate Phoenix missiles, or a long-range equivalent.  Perhaps also fitted with a joint RR/GE (possibly SNECMA, too) variant of the F110?  I add SNECMA because there is commonality with the CFM56 there.

I was thinking of something along those lines Evan, only using a 'home-brewed' long range missile.  I did read that the RAF wanted to continue using the Skyflash which was then in use on the F-4's and then equiped the Tornado ADV when it came operational.  I'm thinking the same radar system that the Tornado got went in the F-15.

[elmayerle]

Perhaps the Tornado ADV's radar with a larger antenna to make full use of the F-15's larger radome?  Too, how about a rocket-ramjet version of Skyflash Active for extended range operations (I could see an AMI variant using a similarly enhanced Aspide Active).  If you wanted less dependence on the US and were willing to accept a bit more engine weight, an afterburning variant of the TF41 would be a good choice in that a test engine demonstrated 26,000 lbst in full afterburner in a test cell in 1967.  I could see a RR/Allison team doing that, though they might want to recruit SNECMA for nozzle experience, or just adapt the M53 nozzle with adjusted scheduling.

[kitnut617]

This might come as a surprise,

Measuring the radome nose cone of the F-15 and Tornado ADV I find the Tornado's is a fraction bigger than the F-15's.  Of course, this could be the quicks of the kits but they were both Hasegawa ones.  I should say that from top to bottom, they were about the same measurement, side to side the ADV was wider.

The problem using an M53 nozzle (which I like) is that there's no aftermarket one in 1/72 scale.   I have just read on a webpage about engines, the F-15E used the F110 as did an F-16C/D.  I think I'll have a look at what I have in the stash.

http://www.jet-engine.net/miltfspec.html

CORRECTION:  I think this set has the M53 nozzles, I've got an enquiry in at Hannants to see what is actually included.

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ORA7209

[elmayerle]

Just as a thought for the nozzles, make resin copies of one from one of the 1/72 Mirage 2000 kits out there or see what you can purchase directly from Heller.  I intend to do that for my FAA/Aeronavale joint testbed for a F-14A upgrade (gives an excuse to put a F-14 in raspberry ripple).

[kitnut617]

He! He!, I had thought of dropping some exhausts into rubber -----

I've got one Mirage 2000 in the collection, only it's built --  I have found that the A-7E Corsair used an TF41 too

EDIT:

I've just made a bit of a discovery, I have three kits of the F-15E, one is built which is the Monogram kit of the F-15B that was converted to the F-15E prototype.  I then have a Hasegawa kit of the same aircraft (  ), when I had found that out after I had bought it sometime ago, I bought an Italeri F-15E.  The discovery is while checking to see which kit had what exhaust nozzles, I find that this Italeri kit is also of the F-15E prototype - 

Is there a production F-15E kit in 1/72 out there ?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Is there a production F-15E kit in 1/72 out there ?

Robert,
Check the Academy 1:72nd scale F-15E kits.  None at hand for me but the [Academy] as far as I know are the most recent tooling of that subject. 

[kitnut617]

Thanks for that Jeff, I'll see if there's one available arounf the LMS's.

[GTX_Admin]

Revisiting the discussion re Probe & Drogue refuelling for F-15s, I recently stumbled across this:  http://theaviationist.com/2012/03/23/israeli-f-15i-aar/

[kitnut617]

I just received an Tornado F.3 nose cone done by C-Scale from Trevor (Howard of Effingham on the What-If Forum).  It will be a very subtle nose change when I do my RAF F-15.

[kitnut617]

Just as a thought for the nozzles, make resin copies of one from one of the 1/72 Mirage 2000 kits out there or see what you can purchase directly from Heller.  I intend to do that for my FAA/Aeronavale joint testbed for a F-14A upgrade (gives an excuse to put a F-14 in raspberry ripple).

I remembered I had a kit of an F-16N but it's taken me a while to find it again.  It was just a 'bagged' kit I got cheap from the LMS, no box and had been started and I had already raided the parts for another project.  I found it again today and found what I thought it had, exhaust nozzle for an F110.  I think I'll try making a couple of copies of this nozzle

[taiidantomcat]

I just received an Tornado F.3 nose cone done by C-Scale from Trevor (Howard of Nottingham on the What-If Forum).  It will be a very subtle nose change when I do my RAF F-15.

Any chance of seeing a "mock-up" picture?

[kitnut617]

Sure TC,  The difference is very slight as the side profile of it is not a lot different.  It's in the top view you see a bigger difference because the F.3 nose cone is completely round and is wider than the F-15 is at the cone connection frame which has an eliptical shape.  I'll have to chop the kit's nose off before I can take a photo of it.  I'll try to do that later today or tomorrow.

[kitnut617]

Decided to take some pics while I'm thinking about it.

The panel line near the round end of the cone is where I'll sand the part down too.