Author Topic: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 161700 times)

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2013, 09:33:19 AM »
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2013, 01:38:49 PM »
The F-15XX is a real world proposal?

In theory, what was the top speed if only engine development occurred?   Where this is going is the possibility of building up a high speed Israeli Strike Eagle/Recce to deal with current conflicts both near and far.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2013, 02:10:55 PM »
I think that, barring material replacement, Mach 2.8 with short excursions to Mach 3 is the best a F-15 airframe can do.  Mind you, with material replacements to take the higher temp and the turbo-ramjet engines P&W was scheming as a JTF22 (in-house model number for all F100/F401 derivatives) development, you could probably go faster still.

Offline Diamondback

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2013, 06:13:49 AM »
Evan, this is an app where the F120-derived RTA1 Turbine-Based Combined Cycle (from low-bypass fan to turbojet to turboramjet, maybe even a pure ramjet mode for cherry on top) might have worked. Don't recall where, but I seem to recall having seen estimates that it could push an F-15- to F-22-size aircraft up to 4.1 (given airframe strength and heat tolerance), which might be where the crowd who did the Ace Combat series got their ideas.

Titanium and high-temp composites using the same structural engineering?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2013, 11:40:35 AM »
That I'd find believable.  Pushing the envelope, but believable.  That Turbine-Based Combine Cycle isn't that new, P&W was looking at it for a JTF22 variant back in 1974 but I don't think it got beyond paper.  And, yes, a pure ramjet mode was part of it, closing off the core and using the bypass duct for the ramjet.  Doing it now with a F120 starting point would be quite feasible, though I think I'd prefer to start with a developed F119 since that was something of a combined cycle engine already.

Offline Diamondback

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2013, 12:55:09 PM »
Evan, I thought YF120 was the combined-cycle and F119 the more conventional... and while I don't know about P&W actively developing new derivatives of the engine, I know GE is or at least was--denial about losing, or just looking to try to recover some of the F120 development cost?

As much as I PREFER P&W for crewdog maintenance reasons, GE is a little farther down the road to a 5th-Gen Fighter TBCC powerplant at this moment...

Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2013, 01:03:50 PM »
Evan, I thought YF120 was the combined-cycle and F119 the more conventional... and while I don't know about P&W actively developing new derivatives of the engine, I know GE is or at least was--denial about losing, or just looking to try to recover some of the F120 development cost?

As much as I PREFER P&W for crewdog maintenance reasons, GE is a little farther down the road to a 5th-Gen Fighter TBCC powerplant at this moment...
Okay, I may have mis-remembered there.  You may well be right.  The funny thing is, the best performing ATF demonstrator was the YF-23 with the GE engines.  I understand why the F-22 was chosen (DOD was not impressed with Northrop's management at the time - can't say I totally blame them) but I'm still not certain why the P&W engine was chosen.  BTW, given recent problems with the F135 engine, the ones that grounded the entire F-35 fleet, I'd argue that the F136 was killed too soon.

In any case, I do know that P&W was studying combined-cycle JTF22 derivatives in 1974 (they even appeared in a novel a few years later).  Mind you, P&W's FLorida R&D Center couldn't do everything, not even they could make the XFV-12's engine installation work in augmented wing mode.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 01:14:43 AM by elmayerle »

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2013, 03:32:05 PM »
Quote
BTW, given recent problems with the F135 engine, the ones that grounded the entire F-35 fleet, I'd argue that the F136 was killed too soon.

Having spoken with P&W these last few days, I wouldn't be too concerned re the F135... ;). Mind you, personally I must admit that I preferred working with the F136 guys/gals when they were still in the game.
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2013, 03:09:47 PM »
Someday I'd hoped to build a Strike Eagle with significant anti satellite capabilities. 
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Offline Diamondback

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2013, 03:25:15 PM »
Define "Significant"... one of my goals with the SE(Special) mod is to hang three to seven Aegis-derived Next-Gen ASATs off its pylons (centerline and one under each wing plus maybe two each on the CFT's) so each of the four aircraft (one manned, three ACAV's) could wreak havoc on a small satellite constellation, or all four deployed together could significantly degrade an enemy's regional space-based capabilities.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: March 03, 2013, 03:31:21 PM »
Significant:  my idea was much lighter duty than yours!   ;D ;D
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Offline Diamondback

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: March 03, 2013, 03:38:30 PM »
Of course, since the three ACAV's would be packing ridiculously powerful onboard computers, doing an ASAT zoom-climb and then tight-band transmitting a virus straight into a target satellite's onboard computers, or possibly delivering an EMP attack via the AESA's, might be possible too... especially since one of the AI's has a bitchy streak and another's a prankster. LOL

Note: ACAV = Autonomous Combat Air Vehicle, essentially the only need for a human in the loop is to authorize weapons arm and give a final go/no-go for attack, otherwise the machine is completely self-sufficient including communicating with tankers and maintenance troops on the ground, kinda like a Skynet H-K in the Terminatorverse.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 03:41:38 PM by Diamondback »

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: March 03, 2013, 04:49:45 PM »
Define "Significant"... one of my goals with the SE(Special) mod is to hang three to seven Aegis-derived Next-Gen ASATs off its pylons (centerline and one under each wing plus maybe two each on the CFT's) so each of the four aircraft (one manned, three ACAV's) could wreak havoc on a small satellite constellation, or all four deployed together could significantly degrade an enemy's regional space-based capabilities.

Check out the image back at Reply #33
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Offline Diamondback

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: March 03, 2013, 04:59:44 PM »
Bit heavy, Greg... (Am I correct that that's an entire Patriot not just the upper stage?) I was thinking of the final stages of an SM-6 like how the SM-2 upper-stage body became the STARM/Seekbat and the captive-carry ASAT shape for testing with the F-106 as Project Spike.

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: March 03, 2013, 05:05:40 PM »
Fair enough...it really depends on how high a satellite you are after.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2013, 01:18:13 AM »
Fair enough...it really depends on how high a satellite you are after.
True, if you're going after one in GEO, you really need to use a surface-launched ASAT.  I rather liked the ship-launched one used against an Argie satelleit in Choosers of the Slain.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2013, 01:08:32 PM »
Did any 1:48 F-15 get issued with an ASAT missile?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2013, 01:12:37 PM »
Did any 1:48 F-15 get issued with an ASAT missile?
Hasegawa made a limited edition one and I believe the early Academy Strike Eagle kits have a somewhat rudimentary one.  I don't know if their later versions retained it.

Offline Diamondback

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2013, 01:35:42 PM »
I've got the manuals for the Academy OIF -E, -I and -K (bought two I's as parts donors), and none of the 2nd-gen kits have the ASAT.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: March 08, 2013, 01:11:31 AM »
Did any 1:48 F-15 get issued with an ASAT missile?
Only two that I know of, Academy with a very misshapen ASAT shape and the much more expensive and harder to find Hasegawa F-15A with ASAT.  The Hasegawa ASAT shape looks much more like the real thing with the additional benefit of including 318th Fighter Squadron markings for one of the units that was to carry the weapon in real life.  The ASAT shape in the Academy F-15 kits does look kindasortalike the ASAT but a bit overweight and out of shape.  The Academy ASAT could be used for a multitude of what-if projects other than an ASAT.  Most of the early Academy F-15 kits (fighter and strike eagle) contained this ASAT shape while Hasegawa only offered it in the one special release kit box.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 01:15:32 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2013, 04:46:22 PM »
i believe one of the US manufacturers offered it.  Monogram?  Revell?  AMT?  Something like like that, in a special boxing IIRC.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: March 08, 2013, 09:32:03 PM »
Two Mikes does (?did) a 1:48 ASAT.   I happened to stumble across it on Facebook just yesterday while perusing some models built in the Eastern Bloc.
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: March 08, 2013, 11:56:49 PM »
i believe one of the US manufacturers offered it.  Monogram?  Revell?  AMT?  Something like like that, in a special boxing IIRC.

ESCI/AMT-Ertl 1:72nd scale F-15 with ASAT and 318th FIS markings. 
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: March 08, 2013, 11:58:18 PM »
Two Mikes does (?did) a 1:48 ASAT.   I happened to stumble across it on Facebook just yesterday while perusing some models built in the Eastern Bloc.

That is news to me and nice to know.  Certainly cheaper than trying to find and purchase the Hasegawa kit. 
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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2013, 04:49:07 AM »
Two Mikes does (?did) a 1:48 ASAT.   I happened to stumble across it on Facebook just yesterday while perusing some models built in the Eastern Bloc.


That is news to me and nice to know.  Certainly cheaper than trying to find and purchase the Hasegawa kit.


Unfortunately they don't appear to be listed anymore on the TwoMikes Website
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