Author Topic: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 152008 times)

Offline Diavel

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2013, 04:37:22 AM »
I built something similar to this using a cut down M113, and a quad Sparrow missile launcher, loosely based on a sea sparrow missile system. The vehicle belonged to my U.S.M.C. task force. I am not sure if I have any decent pics of the vehicle as the ones I took are not brilliant.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2013, 04:41:28 AM »
Something interesting:  A Polish 2K12 "Kub" (SA-6 "Gainful") with RIM-162 ESSM:


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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #102 on: December 23, 2013, 04:42:50 AM »
Or like this?




Yeah - the SLAMRAAM was what inspired my thinking - I wanted to do something earlier though (say '60s/'70s era) hence the RIM-7
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Offline Diavel

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #103 on: December 23, 2013, 05:27:36 AM »
Here is my M113 SPAAG, as I said pics are not good, and I can't take any more.



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Offline Gingie

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #104 on: December 23, 2013, 11:09:21 AM »


Yeah - the SLAMRAAM was what inspired my thinking - I wanted to do something earlier though (say '60s/'70s era) hence the RIM-7


Ah, seen, so more along the lines of the M-727


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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #105 on: December 23, 2013, 11:18:48 AM »
Yeah, but without HAWK missiles...
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #106 on: January 15, 2014, 07:13:08 AM »
Thinking about something like this for a Dana, but perhaps with the CIWS RAM missiles instead of the gatling.

Maybe I should get a HEMTT as well.. hmm....



Offline Gingie

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #107 on: January 15, 2014, 07:15:10 AM »

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #108 on: January 15, 2014, 09:14:58 AM »
Why do you need a tracking radar with an IR guided missile?  It's not as if you control the missile after it's launched.

Offline Gingie

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #109 on: January 15, 2014, 09:25:20 AM »
maybe to slew the missile launcher to the correct bearing/elevation?

I think its likely because the system can also be used with the gatling gun version, which would require both search & track systems.

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #110 on: January 15, 2014, 10:19:17 AM »
Why am I seeing a scene of  this HEMTT, a low bridge and two blokes looking very sheepish.

I know there is a myriad of safetys around transporting this sort of thing.. but seriously, it was the first thing that popped into my head.

Seeing this and thinking about your DANA call certainly has a load of possibilities, even around MLRS type loads

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #111 on: January 15, 2014, 10:55:21 AM »
maybe to slew the missile launcher to the correct bearing/elevation?

I think its likely because the system can also be used with the gatling gun version, which would require both search & track systems.

I realise it's an adaptation from the Dalek however it seems a superfluous piece of equipment to me.  You have the search radar to alert you as to the direction/altitude of approaching aircraft and all you need do is slew the launcher to the correct angle to allow you to launch the missile which acquires and guides itself.  I'm aware that they use the acquisition radar on the gatling gun system to track the rounds and adjust the aim during the engagement but I really can't see much use for it with an IR missile.

I agree with Buzzbomb, height was my first consideration when I saw that truck mounted system.  Goalkeeper might be a better idea than Phalanx.  Bigger gun, lower mounting and radars.

Offline Gingie

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #112 on: January 15, 2014, 11:35:56 AM »
caveat - Sea-based AD is not my background.

Tracking radars are not just there to put a bullet on a target. They also help build a common air threat picture. I would guess that the info from these radar systems is is combined and fed into the ship's fire control section, allowing the air defence section to prioritize engagements or query IFF.

The in-service C-RAM in Afghanistan is mounted on a low-bed trailer, reducing height. I suspect the HEMMT version has a road march mode that would see the radars stowed. The system is designed for point defence, not mobile defence or convoy escort. 

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2014, 12:07:32 PM »
I think we are using different terminology here to describe the same thing.

I know on the Phalanx there are two radars - a Search radar which actively searches 360 degrees and detects incoming threats to the ship.  There is also a tracking radar which the search radar hands the engagement over to if a target is detected and it fulfils the parameters for an engagement.  That tracking radar tracks both the target and the rounds fired from the gun.  The tracking system adjusts the fall of shot and makes the two converge by correcting the aim of the gun mount.  Its why the Phalanx system has such a strange drum shaped radar housing on top.  The dome part contains the search radar and the stem the tracking one.   It's also why the entire radar elevates with the gun mount, to keep the tracking radar pointing towards the incoming target, in line with the gun.

Obviously an IR missile doesn't need that facility, which is why I wonder the tracking radar is still there.

What you're describing would be, I thought, part of the function of the Search radar, not the Tracking radar.

BTW, if anybody is interested, there is a 1/35 Phalanx presently being auctioned on Evil Bay - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KHS-VIKING-MODELS-1-35-PHALANX-CLOSE-IN-WEAPON-SYSTEM-/141161683570?pt=Model_Kit_US&hash=item20dde45a72 - you'll have to be quick though, as it ends tomorrow!  ;D 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 03:57:29 PM by Rickshaw »

Offline Weaver

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2014, 08:45:02 PM »
Perhaps in SeaRAM the tracking radar tracks the target and the missile, decides whether the missile's going to hit or not, and thereby decides whether to launch another one?
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #115 on: January 15, 2014, 08:50:44 PM »
Why not just go for the standard 21 round RAM launcher and mount the radar elsewhere on the vehicle, maybe even mast mount it.

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2014, 02:18:26 AM »
SeaRAM combines the Phalanx CIWS Block 1B search-and-track radar and Elector Optic sensors with the RAM missile system - the system does not provide missile guidance.
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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2014, 02:41:33 AM »

BTW, if anybody is interested, there is a 1/35 Phalanx presently being auctioned on Evil Bay - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KHS-VIKING-MODELS-1-35-PHALANX-CLOSE-IN-WEAPON-SYSTEM-/141161683570?pt=Model_Kit_US&hash=item20dde45a72 - you'll have to be quick though, as it ends tomorrow!  ;D


Nah…already have one. ;)  Mine is planned for fitment to a M1 Abrams hull…to give a "Dalek" SPAAG ;D
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2014, 02:42:11 AM »

Maybe I should get a HEMTT as well.. hmm....


Does anyone do one in 1/48?
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Offline Silver Fox

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #119 on: January 16, 2014, 05:54:57 AM »
Wouldn't the tracking radar have the final say on whether the target was within actual engagement profile? Search radar is a rather crude tool for that role.

Offline Gingie

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #120 on: January 16, 2014, 06:58:19 AM »
Perhaps in SeaRAM the tracking radar tracks the target and the missile, decides whether the missile's going to hit or not, and thereby decides whether to launch another one?

Yep. Tracking radar determines whether the target is still a threat or if the missile destroyed it.

And according the wiki "The original weapon cannot employ its own sensors prior to firing so it must be integrated with a ship's combat system, which directs the launcher at targets".


Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #121 on: January 16, 2014, 02:18:48 PM »
Perhaps in SeaRAM the tracking radar tracks the target and the missile, decides whether the missile's going to hit or not, and thereby decides whether to launch another one?


Possible but I wouldn't have thought there were have been sufficient time for that.

I note that there are several 1/72 scale Phalanx available in resin:

http://www.shapeways.com/model/1125118/phalanx-kit-x-1-1-72.html?li=shop-results&materialId=61
http://www.fleetscale.com/store/gb/royal-navy-type-45-destroyer/105-1-72nd-phalanx-gun-weapon-system.html

There is also one available in 1/48:

http://www.shapeways.com/model/1559287/phalanx-kit-1-48-x-1.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6

3d Boats also does a SeaRAM system but only in 1/96 scale.  As they are 3d printed, it shouldn't be hard for them to do one in 1/72 or 1/35.




Offline Gingie

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2014, 08:44:27 AM »

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2014, 09:07:36 AM »
Prototype Integration Facility... Military for Kitbasher U ??

Very practical that setup, probably something we will see  more of using existing Air to Air missiles in this sort of role

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2014, 09:09:32 AM »
Anybody know where I can get some 1/32 AIM-120s?

I think the bottle of water though, rather spoils the picture.  ;D ;D