Author Topic: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"  (Read 6740 times)

Offline Old Wombat

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LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« on: July 24, 2021, 01:31:26 AM »
This build is inspired by Mr Jeffrey Fontaine, who sent me a number of Saladin turrets from Tamiya M113A1 Fire Support Vehicles amongst some other odds & ends.

The base kit is an Italeri LVT(A)-1 Alligator which I am in the process of modifying, like the Australian army M113A1s, to mount one of the Saladin 76mm-gunned turrets.

Obviously, the vehicle being an amphibian, where to put this build is something of a quandary: Sea or Land? Land or Sea? ???

I settled on "Land" because it really only travels through the water to get from the transport ship to land, where it does most of its work. Although this Royal Australian Marines version is going to be operating in the flooded rice paddies & rivers of Vietnam as much as on firm dry land.

Photo's have been taken of these early stages & will, hopefully be posted tomorrow ... later today.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2021, 02:19:12 PM »
First images.

Phase One - Basic Turret Fitment:






Phase Two - Turret Ring & Rear Superstructure Extension Installation:






Phase Three - PSR + Primer:





"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2021, 03:57:44 PM »
So much right about this.

Nice one.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2021, 10:36:12 PM »
Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!  :smiley:

Excellent solution on the space issue by extending the superstructure further aft to cover the two machine gun pits. 

----------------------------------

In the same vein, the idea of creating a roof for the LVT-4 that would allow a turret to be mounted in the troop/cargo compartment and have the rear ramp for access like the original M113 FSV was another idea that I was exploring.  I would guess that designation could be called an LVT(A)-5?   
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 10:41:46 PM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2021, 02:31:37 PM »
Thanks, BT & Jeff! :icon_alabanza:


Actually, I removed the machine gun pits - I can find somewhere else to put them, I'm sure. ;)

The initial fit of the turret showed that the gun pits were uninhabitable with the Saladin turret in place, so the extended hull was a simple, obvious solution & gives the potential for greater fuel & ammo carrying capacity.


You're going to have to find another designation, Jeff;

Quote from: wikipedia
LVT(A)-5 (1945)

LVT(A)-4 with a powered turret and a gyrostabilizer for the howitzer. Some were upgraded in the late 1940s by changing the armor configuration. 269 units produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Vehicle_Tracked


Nothing further done at this stage, I was seconded to SPR (sand-paint-repeat) duty on a cot ... Apparently I'm going to be a grandfather (:o) sometime in early December.

Hopefully I'll get the turret finished to primer tonight.
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2021, 09:15:14 PM »
So much right about this.

Nice one.

Wot he said.  :smiley:
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Ramba

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2021, 09:31:28 PM »
Very cool! Looking good so far.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021, 01:20:54 AM »
You're going to have to find another designation, Jeff;

Quote from: wikipedia
LVT(A)-5 (1945)

LVT(A)-4 with a powered turret and a gyrostabilizer for the howitzer. Some were upgraded in the late 1940s by changing the armor configuration. 269 units produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Vehicle_Tracked
Good catch Guy! 

I failed to read up on the LVT-4 variants.  That being said, it looks like the next available designation would be LVT(A)-6 :smiley:

Would the RAM still call it a Buffalo or change the name to define the new purpose? 
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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2021, 01:41:17 AM »

The initial fit of the turret showed that the gun pits were uninhabitable with the Saladin turret in place, so the extended hull was a simple, obvious solution & gives the potential for greater fuel & ammo carrying capacity.


Roof Browning and a fly tarp would be more fitting anyways.
http://historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/file/vn%20centurion%20tank.jpg

Offline LemonJello

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2021, 02:20:36 AM »
Will be following along with this one, for sure.  I like where this is heading.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2021, 03:32:45 PM »
Thanks, LJ! :smiley:



The initial fit of the turret showed that the gun pits were uninhabitable with the Saladin turret in place, so the extended hull was a simple, obvious solution & gives the potential for greater fuel & ammo carrying capacity.


Roof Browning and a fly tarp would be more fitting anyways.
http://historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/file/vn%20centurion%20tank.jpg


Already has a .30 cal M1919, but I've swapped it out for a better one with some mod's to make it look more like the USN Mk.21, Mod.0 7.62mm conversion. Fly tarp is probably not going to happen. ;)


I failed to read up on the LVT-4 variants.  That being said, it looks like the next available designation would be LVT(A)-6 :smiley:

Would the RAM still call it a Buffalo or change the name to define the new purpose? 


Well, this one is based on the LVT(A)-1 Alligator, so Crocodile works on this build because it's an Alligator with more bite. :D

Well, we have water buffaloes here in Northern Australia but whether the RAM'd call the LVT-4 based vehicles (Water) Buffaloes is anyone's guess. What little Australian (Army) documentation I've seen just calls them LVT-4s. ???
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2021, 07:38:15 PM »
Of (almost) no relevance to this build, except to explain why I achieved so little over the weekend, is the fact that I have known for some weeks now that I am going to be a grandfather. :smiley:

On the weekend I spent most of Saturday conducting SPR (sand-paint-repeat) on a cot, so didn't have time to work on the Crocodile. :icon_crap:

Today I learned that this grandchild is to be a grandson! ;D

Which has led me to start looking at my few 1/72 kits in a rather different light ... They may come in handy in a few years, methinks! ;)


OK, time to wander off & have a shower, then go to bed. Work tomorrow. :icon_sueno:


PS: I have already informed my daughter that I shall be referring to him as "Young Wombat" ... Amusingly, his father's online gaming name is "Kombat Wombat" (not sure that's how he writes it).
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 07:44:05 PM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2021, 10:01:01 PM »
Phase Four - Turret Completed & in Primer:


Oops, shot that one a tad low! :-[








A bit wonky on that one but I like the "eyes"! ;)





As mentioned elsewhere the .30cal M1919s (co-axial & commander's) are NOT .30cal M1919s but, rather, 7.62mm Mk.21 Mod.0's as per the USN's modification process.

Quote from: wikipedia
Mk 21 Mod 0

The increasing American involvement in Vietnam created a demand for small arms, especially the new M60 machine gun. The Navy had surplus machine guns left over from World War 2 and Korea, but they were chambered for the earlier .30-06 Springfield cartridge rather than the new standard 7.62mm NATO cartridge. The Mk 21 Mod 0 was a US Navy conversion of the .30 M1919A4 to fire the 7.62mm NATO cartridge. This was accomplished by replacing the barrel, bolt, and feed cover and adding a chamber bushing, a link-stripper, and a second belt-holding pawl to allow it to feed and fire the new cartridge. Spacer blocks were added to the front and back of the feedway to guide the shorter round and block the use of the longer .30-06 Springfield ammunition. A six-inch flash hider was also added to the barrel to reduce the muzzle flash.

The conversions were performed from 1966 through 1967 at Naval Ordnance Station Louisville.[25] Modified M1919A4s had the designation "Machine Gun, 7.62mm / Mk 21 Mod 0" stamped on the receiver sideplate in 1/4-inch lettering. The replacement barrels had "7.62mm NATO-G" stamped on them in 1/8-inch letters to differentiate them from M1919A4 or M60 barrels; the letter G indicated it used a grooved barrel bushing.

It used the standard 7.62mm NATO M13 link "strip-out" disintegrating link,[26] in which the bolt pushes the round out of the bottom of the two-part link and then forwards into the breech. The old M1 link "pull-out" disintegrating links, which are pulled backwards out of the one-piece link by the extractor towards the bolt and then forwards into the breech, would not feed through the new mechanism. The M1 links, which were designed for the longer and thinner .30-06 Springfield, would also be too narrow to fit the shorter and thicker 7.62mm NATO round. The US Navy, because of their narrower inventory of 7.62mm NATO ammunition, used linked belts of either 7.62mm M80 Ball or a 4:1 ratio mix of 7.62mm M80 Ball and 7.62mm M62 Tracer.

The refurbished feed mechanism was left-hand feed only. It was different from the one in the M60 GPMG in that the open end of the belt had to be on top so it could be stripped out. To prepare the ammo, gunners had to take out both of the 100-round belts from an M19A1 ammo can, had to link them both together, and then loaded the resultant 200-round belt back into the M19A1 can upside-down so it would feed correctly.


Mk 21 in Vietnam being fed by an upside-down M-13 link belt (the links are not visible)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2021, 12:37:09 AM »
The turret and mg are looking fantastic!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2021, 12:59:28 AM »
The turret and mg are looking fantastic!
 
I will echo exactly what Frank just stated above!  Definitely doing that old Tamiya Saladin turret justice with the details.  :smiley:
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Offline Ramba

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2021, 03:18:50 AM »
Great job! Can't wait to see it finished.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2021, 08:43:59 AM »
Thanks, guys! :icon_alabanza:

Onto the main hull next! :smiley:
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Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2021, 08:58:41 AM »
Nice work, it certainly looks to be one of those second glance models, where folks will wonder if it existed or not.

So the big question around the tracks.
My experience was the Italeri tracks are ok, but not very flexible. AFV Club rubber bands, quite acceptable. I used them on my LVT Mortar carrier.
For the Mo twirling, lip smacking tracks, go the AFV club individual links. They look excellent, however a bit of work to put together.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2021, 09:51:29 AM »
Thanks, BT! :icon_alabanza:

I'm going to stick with the (Italeri) kit tracks, for now, although I may use the tracks from my AFV Club LVT-4.

However, if I go down that route, I'll have to buy some AFV Club indy tracks for the LVT-4 & my LVT(A)-4. :-\
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2021, 10:40:34 AM »
What I love about this build is that at first glance, it looks like an M3 or M5 Stuart turret... but it isn't when you look closer.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2021, 10:32:12 PM »
 :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2021, 06:17:33 PM »
Fellow Whiffers, I am fraught by a frightful conundrum! :-\

Do I add stripes or splotches of Dark Earth, or do I leave the scheme as it is? ???











Please answer quickly, as time is at a premium! :o
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Offline Ramba

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2021, 07:42:09 PM »
Coming along nicely! That turret looks great on it.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2021, 08:15:46 PM »
Thanks for the positive feedback, Ramba! :smiley:


But you're no bloody help with my conundrum, are you! ::) ;)
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2021, 08:24:20 PM »
My 2 centavos: Stripes.

This is really coming along nicely.  Inspirational, even.

Offline Ramba

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2021, 08:40:28 PM »
Thanks for the positive feedback, Ramba! :smiley:


But you're no bloody help with my conundrum, are you! ::) ;)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I tend not to give advice anymore as my advice is usually ignored.

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2021, 08:52:16 PM »
Practice part of each on the hull bottom. Plenty of room and never be seen.


Offline Frank3k

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2021, 12:58:11 AM »
Guy,
You should do what I would do - put on stripes, decide it looks like crap, strip the model back to bare plastic, reapply the paint, try a different pattern, hate it, strip the paint again, reapply...

Or do what Brian suggests. Less suffering and wasted time.

Offline apophenia

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2021, 02:19:43 AM »
At risk of intensifying your conundrum, I vote for both stripes and "splotches of Dark Earth"!  :smiley:

The idea is that this started off as a 'Top Ender' RAM vehicle (splotches) before being deployed to the Mekong delta (stripes).
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2021, 09:17:42 AM »
Well, at this stage, I've gone with a (supposedly) darker green (Tamiya XF-27 Black Green) tiger stripe look due to a push from several gent's over on WIM.

Can't say I'm overly impressed but that may be because the paint was pre-mixed quite a while ago for the airbrush & the Tamiya paint is considerably more matt than the SMS paints I've used for the rest, so it actually looks lighter at the moment. Maybe after gloss & dull coats it will look better? ???

Anyway, I'm still tossing up adding the SMS Dark Earth, in another stripy pattern, over that.

Photo's of where I'm at a bit later.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2021, 10:43:35 AM »
Photo's:











The photo's show my dilemma quite well, most places look too light, unless the light is coming from the correct angle when it looks darker.

Decisions! Decisions! :-\



PS: Some of you may have noticed the bolted-on plate added to the front. Almost all the images I've seen of the LVT variants from WW2 through Korea have this plate affixed but it isn't incorporated in the Italeri kit. So, with a piece of appropriate thickness styrene & a dozen Plus Model bolt heads, I've added it to my Vietnam era vehicle.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 10:50:33 AM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Ramba

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2021, 11:02:30 AM »

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2021, 12:02:10 PM »
Something very similar is highly likely, mate, albeit probably not so squiggly. :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2021, 12:14:45 PM »
Looking good, very good!  Definitely one of those things that should have been a real thing!  :smiley:
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Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2021, 02:10:39 PM »
Have to agree with Jeff, this is so natural a look

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2021, 10:30:25 PM »
Right! I went with another set of stripy shapes for the SMS Dark Earth. Here are the photo's:











I think it looks alright; not too busy, not too plain.


Thanks, Jeff & BT! :icon_alabanza:

Not so sure about "should have been" but certainly a viable "could have been". :smiley:

Not too far off your idea, either, Ramba. ;)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 10:33:44 PM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2021, 06:56:46 AM »
Nailed it.

That works very nicely

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2021, 03:46:33 PM »
Thanks, again, BT! :icon_alabanza:

Yah, no more paint. Just needs a gloss coat, some decals & a matt coat ... & some weathering. :smiley:

Tracks (AFV Club) are, unfortunately, black; so will need some painting, too. The Italeri tracks are a nice metallic colour but are as stiff as a board! ::)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2021, 07:49:06 PM »
Tracks (AFV Club) are, unfortunately, black; so will need some painting, too. The Italeri tracks are a nice metallic colour but are as stiff as a board! ::)

Black ??  The ones I used were brown. Much more civilised. As to the italeri tracks, that is precisely why I ditched using them

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2021, 08:41:47 PM »
Tracks (AFV Club) are, unfortunately, black; so will need some painting, too. The Italeri tracks are a nice metallic colour but are as stiff as a board! ::)

Black ??  The ones I used were brown. Much more civilised. As to the italeri tracks, that is precisely why I ditched using them

AFV Club indy links I bought are brown but the rubber tracks from my AFV Club LVT-4, which is what I'm using for this build, are black.

Just doing a few little touch-up bits that I forgot & she'll be getting glossed! :smiley:

Hopefully that'll fix the "different sheen" issue. We'll see. ::)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2021, 10:05:08 PM »
Gloss coat fixed the sheen issue a treat! ;D

Too shiny, now, for photo's. I'll take some once the decals & matt coat are done (before the weathering). :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2021, 10:33:25 AM »
Matt coat (Tamiya TS-80 Flat Clear) has been applied. Just waiting for it to dry. :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2021, 12:23:33 PM »
Photo's:













Annoyingly I'm still getting too much reflected light.

Also, the cable on the rear is slightly too long despite measuring the thread I used against the inside of the (highly problematic) Italeri plastic part, I guess it must have stretched during the painting process. :icon_crap:

Don't even mention red dry transfers! :o

Size comparison;







HUGE! is the first thought that comes to mind looking at those images. :icon_surprised:
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 12:25:40 PM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline LemonJello

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2021, 09:28:56 PM »
"Awesome" is the first thing that comes to my mind. 

"Huge" is probably third or fourth.

Nicely done.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2021, 09:51:08 PM »
Looks great Guy!  As for the tow cable, those things often have a mind of their own when it comes to conforming.  Consider that to be just one more detail towards authentic. 

BZ!  :smiley:
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Ramba

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2021, 09:55:25 PM »
Terrific job! The M4 and M41 look great too.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2021, 10:31:48 PM »
It's looking great! It's a beast compared to the other two tanks.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2021, 02:28:53 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2021, 04:23:43 AM »
That came out beautifully  :smiley:  The paint stands gives your Crocodile a bit of an anti-grav vibe ... probably not a bad idea for the Mekong delta ...

... Don't even mention red dry transfers! :o

Sorry ... gotta  ;)  "SALTIE" is the perfect name for this beast  :smiley:  Well worth any Letraset sacrifices demanded by the modelling gods  ;D
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2021, 07:07:22 AM »
Bloody Maaaaarvellous !! :smiley: :smiley:

Everything works, great scheme and terrific planning to get it together. Well done

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2021, 05:29:18 PM »
Thank you all, gentlemen! :icon_alabanza: :icon_alabanza:

... Don't even mention red dry transfers! :o

Sorry ... gotta  ;)  "SALTIE" is the perfect name for this beast  :smiley:  Well worth any Letraset sacrifices demanded by the modelling gods  ;D

You're an EVIL man! >:D

Two wasted "E"s on one side four wasted "T"s on the other. :icon_crap:

Normally I don't have any problems with Archer dry transfers but these red ones ... :-X


The name came from a suggestion on WIM that the Marines would call it the "Saltie" but, well, nah ... It did work as a name, though.

And half the letters have "chips" missing ... But that's OK, they're just "pre-weathered". ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Volkodav

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2021, 05:53:57 PM »
Love your work!

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: LVT(A)-1A "Crocodile"
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2021, 08:31:04 PM »
Thanks, Paul! :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."