Author Topic: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 115284 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 16, 2012, 02:46:17 AM »
Hi folks,

An area for your McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration.

To start with, here is some inspiring artwork by Andy Wenner:



Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 05:56:01 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 10:52:19 AM »
Just to start discussion, let me through a few simple ideas out there:

  • A navalized F-4E "gunfighter" for, at least, USMC usage.
  • An early export version with Avon 300-series or ATAR 9K engines (the latter for France, of course)
  • A version of the propose F-4T single-seat "gunfighter" with the low-profile canopy of the original F4H-1
  • The proposed F-4EJ-Kai with a new wing aerodynamically derived from the F-15's wing
  • Various engine upgrades: F404, PW1120, uprated RB.199, etc.
  • Alternate Users: Canada being the most obvious for sevral variants

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 10:57:14 AM »
Production version of the test bird fitted with canards on the sides of the intakes.  Always thought that one looked rather wicked.
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Offline upnorth

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 12:32:51 AM »
I always liked the variable geometry concepts of the Phantom.

Like a two engined MiG-23 from some angles.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 05:40:39 AM »
I've finished a total of 63 Rhino profiles over the years including a number of Swingers with various noses.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Iranian F-14A

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 05:47:27 PM »
Production version of the test bird fitted with canards on the sides of the intakes.  Always thought that one looked rather wicked.

Never seen a pic,but I heard some Israeli F-4s were modified with canards. Not sure if I believe this one or not. I know Israel had a habit of doing local modifications to aircraft, including adding canards to the Mirage 5 to make the Kfir,but still, never seen any evidence of this one.

Offline Scooterman

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 10:02:22 PM »
62-12200 was the only canard Rhino.  Looks hot IMHO.  Been wanting to model this machine for awhile but she's quite the mash up.  Thin, fixed slat wings, no front missile bays, I forget what else.


Offline Maverick

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 10:33:15 PM »
I believe the basic airframe was that of an RF-4C which explains the lack of missile bays for starters.  That said, I've also seen references to an F-4E which wouldn't preclude missile bays.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline Iranian F-14A

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 04:56:23 AM »
You're both right,in a sense. 62-12200 was an RF-4C,not sure if it was the prototype of it( I have seen it listed as a "YRF-4C"),but it was the prototype F-4E,or YF-4E. The first tests done with an internal M61 were pretty crude,and they used this model,with the gun sticking out of the forward looking camera window right below the radome. Obviously the production models had a better installation,but for the prototype,this was good enough.Because it was orginally built as an RF model,this would explain the lack of foreward missile bays.

Offline apophenia

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 06:19:55 AM »
Alternate Users: Canada being the most obvious for sevral variants

And here's one ...
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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 12:45:13 PM »
The CF-110 Phantom II looks nice!  Definitely a project worth consideration and a nice companion for an RCAF CF-110. 
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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 05:06:44 PM »
Sweet :-*
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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 04:39:08 AM »
ESTOL Phantom anyone?

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 04:41:05 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 04:55:18 AM »
Some inspiration:

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 12:39:39 PM »
Single seater (maybe even the original F-4F)

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 03:17:12 PM »
The single-seater I'm planning to do is a simpler mod to a "stock" F-4E using the original low F4H-1 canopy and following F-15 convention of making the backseat area an avionics bay.  I'm just questioning if I should add other "enhancements" such as improved engines and possibly a new wing aerodynamically similar to the F-15's wing.

Offline Weaver

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2012, 12:28:43 AM »
Fouga version with a V-tail?

My favorite What If question about the F4 is "what if it never happened?". It was so influential that concocting alternative procurements leads you into all sorts of interesting ideas....
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2012, 01:26:34 AM »
"It never happened" leads to a couple of interesting ideas, a production F8U-3 and/or an enlarged F5D variant with a J75 and variable inlets (I'm partial to Fieri inlets like the F-105's myself).  Choice of seats (tandem for a two-seater most likely) would be up to the modeler and backstory.

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2012, 01:36:08 AM »
The single-seater I'm planning to do is a simpler mod to a "stock" F-4E using the original low F4H-1 canopy and following F-15 convention of making the backseat area an avionics bay.  I'm just questioning if I should add other "enhancements" such as improved engines and possibly a new wing aerodynamically similar to the F-15's wing.

No idea how to improve on the canopy but the suggestion of adapting the F-15 wing to the Phantom is appealing.  It should be easy enough to accomplish.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2012, 06:36:26 AM »
No idea how to improve on the canopy but the suggestion of adapting the F-15 wing to the Phantom is appealing.  It should be easy enough to accomplish.
Very easy in that the root chords are nigh unto identical (I've done the test fit with a spare set of F-15 wings).  For the canopy, I was going to use the appropriate bits from Falcon's F4H-1 conversion.  Thinking of doing it to a Testors/Italieri F-4E/F/G kit and using the leftover G parts, particularly the sensor, in doing a WW Eagle from a two-seat F-15.

Offline Weaver

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2012, 06:48:52 PM »
"It never happened" leads to a couple of interesting ideas, a production F8U-3 and/or an enlarged F5D variant with a J75 and variable inlets (I'm partial to Fieri inlets like the F-105's myself).  Choice of seats (tandem for a two-seater most likely) would be up to the modeler and backstory.

And that's just for the Navy. What might the airforce had done for Vietnam once they realised they needed a dogfighter and they were losing Thuds hand-over-fist?

1. Productionised F-107 with the intake back in the ventral position?

2. F-106 "gunfighter" (Vulcan plus fuel in the bay, twin sidewinders on new outer-wing pylons) deployed to 'Nam and the production run extended?

3. Fighter F-105 with a bigger wing, fuel in the bay and more missiles? (for all their size, Thud's did surprisingly well in air-to-air combat: most of the losses were down to ground fire, and many might have been avoided by better detail design)

4. USAF procurement of the F-8 Crusader, possibly with a J-79 and a Vulcan?

5. USAF emergency procurement of a foreign type? A J-79-engined Mirage would seem tasty, and might, of course, give other people ideas......
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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2012, 06:54:32 PM »

4. USAF procurement of the F-8 Crusader, possibly with a J-79 and a Vulcan?

Mmmm.... :-*

Maybe also USAF A-6 Intruders in the strike role?
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Offline dy031101

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2012, 09:30:15 PM »


A heavier version with three engines?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2012, 11:15:45 PM »
5. USAF emergency procurement of a foreign type? A J-79-engined Mirage would seem tasty, and might, of course, give other people ideas......
Well, considering that Boeing-Wichita had the US license for the Mirage III (if built, it would have been the Mirage IIIW) for entry in the FMS competition won by the F-5, procurement of first the Mirage III and later a J79-powered version would definitely be possible.

Mind you, I think the USAF adapting the F-8 much as they did the A-7 (armament and engine changes as well as a switch in inflight refueling methods) would be more likely given the attitude set of the SecDef of the time.  I suspect the same thing might have happened in the strike role with the A-6 picking up the slack (hmm, 'twould take enlarged engine nacelles, but a TF30-powered A-6?  Using the turbofan version of the J52 would be just a bit too much).

Of course, I could also see P&W pushing to replace the J75s in the F-105 and F-106 with afterburning JT8Ds, similar to the Viggen's RM8.