Author Topic: North American F-100 Super Sabre  (Read 15465 times)

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North American F-100 Super Sabre
« on: January 13, 2012, 04:23:05 AM »
Folks,

A thread for your North American F-100 Ideas and Inspiration.  To start with, here are a couple:

The Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation (CAC) had a established history producing North American designs.  What if in the late '50/early '60s they followed up the Avon Sabre with production of the F-100 for the RAAF.

Secondly,  what if instead of the The J57, two smaller engines were used, ala the MiG-19 counterpart?

Regards,

Greg
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Offline Maverick

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 04:43:15 AM »
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I've done a dozen or more Huns in various markings, including four RAAF examples.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 05:24:39 AM »
Would you mind playing that record one more time and posting them here or in your profiles thread?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 03:07:16 PM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 07:26:59 AM »
Nps,






Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 09:02:21 AM »
Quote
Secondly,  what if instead of the The J57, two smaller engines were used, ala the MiG-19 counterpart?

J52s as in the A-4E and North American's own AGM-28 Hound Dog?

J57 is a good engine though. I think most re-engine options will leave it somewhat underpowered.


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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 09:45:30 AM »
The F-100's J57 was around the 10,000lb thrust mark, two J52s (even in their earliest incarnation at 7,500lbs thrust) would produce a total of 14,000 plus or thereabouts.  One would suggest that the change would enhance the Hun's performance rather than degrade it, providing the conversion ticked all of the boxes.

Either way, I also read that there was a proposal to re-engine French F-100s with the Spey.  Although the article didn't suggest which model of engine was considered, there's another alternative I guess.

Regards,

John
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John

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 10:06:10 AM »
I'm not sure if it would've been the early Spey, as fitted to the UK's Phantoms or the later Spey (produced dry as the TF41).  The latter had more demonstrated growth with reheat and internal aero improvements.

Just a thought, how about a twin-Avon F-100 to begin with, followed by a twin-J79 version as the J79 improved in reliability and power (and, like the J52, the J79 first flew in a cruise missile - the Regulus II).  The J52 would need afterburning for a twin-J52 engine fit to replace the J57 but that shouldn't have been a problem for P&W given their experience with the J57 and J75.

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 10:11:57 AM »


Reposting here- tailless delta anyone?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 10:51:30 AM »
Let us not forget the two F-100-derived "Super Fury" F2J proposals over on retromechanix.com.  Between those and the FJ-5 proposal, you could do some serious NAA goodness.

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 03:08:18 PM »
Thanks for the profiles John.  Great work!
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 09:00:35 PM »
Sorry, I meant most contemporary single-engine re-engine options from the J57 would leave it underpowered (i.e. J71, J73, J65).

With a later timeframe, yeah the Spey and J79 are your best bets. I think the J75 was a little too long for the F-100 but if you are stretching it into F-107/F2J territiory, then it is not a problem.

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 03:28:37 AM »
Sorry, I meant most contemporary single-engine re-engine options from the J57 would leave it underpowered (i.e. J71, J73, J65).


True.  Maybe it is an option though if the J57 was unavailable or even as an export model?

Regards,

Greg
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 10:07:16 AM »
^ Good point. I can definitely see the J65 being used on an export version.

If Westinghouse had managed to sort the J40, it may have also come into play.

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2012, 10:37:28 AM »
Don't forget the navy version!



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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 10:58:19 AM »
Cool.
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2012, 01:13:22 PM »
Sorry, I meant most contemporary single-engine re-engine options from the J57 would leave it underpowered (i.e. J71, J73, J65).

With a later timeframe, yeah the Spey and J79 are your best bets. I think the J75 was a little too long for the F-100 but if you are stretching it into F-107/F2J territiory, then it is not a problem.

Yeah, I agree there (though rather later - like circa 1990 - proposed afterburning J52 variants would work).  The J75 is clearly too big, powerful, and thirsty for a simple installation in the F-100.  I'd call the J79 as the most likely choice (it was chosen for the FJ-5 Fury) and, perhaps, a 300-series Avon, or RM6C, would work for export (I have to wonder if the French every trialed an ATAR from the Mirage III in a F-100 for spares commonality).  In the 1960s, the afterburning Spey (presumably something similar to what was fitted to British Phantoms rather than the studied afterburning TF41 would be used - afterburning TF41 would make a great replacement for the TF30 - perhaps an Allison/Rolls-Royce/SNECMA development of the afterburning TF41 as a TF30 replacement for FAA and Aeronavale F-14s?).

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2012, 02:37:53 AM »
 :)
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2013, 01:48:57 PM »
Khemed remained aligned with the West long after Zakaroff and flew a handful of Huns against Sheik Bab el Ehr during the early petroleum wars.
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2013, 07:12:13 PM »
Variable-geometry (Su-17) wings and a TF33!

Offline upnorth

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2013, 07:17:11 PM »
How about a tailed delta wing arrangement, like a MiG-21?
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2013, 01:58:39 AM »
Variable-geometry (Su-17) wings and a TF33!
While the TF33 may share a common core with the J57, it's a rather larger engine and would not be a good fit.  A TF30, despite its problems, likely would be.


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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2013, 05:49:41 AM »
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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2013, 03:26:33 PM »
That Motocar bloke does get about, doesn't he, Greg?  ;D

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Re: North American F-100 Super Sabre
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2014, 04:59:22 AM »
Here are some to get you started:




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