Author Topic: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 25639 times)

Offline jcf

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2014, 10:57:37 AM »
The Hornet was one of the first applications of bonded composite structure, bonded in the glue sense not the electrical. Many of the wood and metal components were glued one to the other with Redux phenolic adhesive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redux_(adhesive)

Redux was not susceptible to the humidity problems that plagued the Mosquito, which is was found
were not due to the type glue but to how it was applied, or not. Production control and qc problems
were considerd the cause.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2014, 12:47:35 PM »
What I am curious about is how early could the Mosquito and then the Hornet have been developed and put into service, had the official reluctance to go with something so revolutionary been avoided?  An ideal would have been for the UK to push for production, of both the airframes and perhaps more importantly the RR Merlins, to be established in Canada and Australia as early as possible to supply the RAF.  These long range aircraft could conceivably have been ferried from Canada to the UK and from Australia to the Middle East.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2014, 12:30:55 AM »
The very first chapter in the Sharp/Bowyer book on the Mosquito (also called Book 1) reveals that De Havilland first started to think about a 'twin-Merlin' medium bomber was to Specification P.13/36.  They were thinking of adapting the DH.91 Albatross into a twin Merlin aircraft.  The figures weren't very promising though so De Havilland developed the idea further, but it wasn't until 1938-39 that the Ministry started to take notice of what De Havilland was offering.  You could argue that 36', 37' could have been an earlier starting point for the Mosquito.

Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2014, 01:31:55 AM »
The absolute worst thing I could ever do to the DH Hornet would be to put it on floats. It's just too beautiful to change. And this is coming from me. Really.

I'm afraid. :)

Alvis 3.1

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2014, 02:45:09 AM »
The absolute worst thing I could ever do to the DH Hornet would be to put it on floats.


You wuz sayin'…

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2014, 02:49:17 AM »
What about a Sea Hornet NF.21



crossed with APS-20 radar from Avenger TBM-3W.

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2014, 03:05:09 AM »
If someone wanted to try, this pic probably provides the basis for a little photoshopped proof that the USN flew Sea Hornets... ;)

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2014, 03:52:24 AM »
There was one tested by the RCAF for the RAF at Namao, Edmonton.  Winter trials, so how about a USAAF/USAF  one in Alaska ---

Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2014, 03:54:01 AM »
What about a Sea Hornet NF.21



crossed with APS-20 radar from Avenger TBM-3W.





AAIIEEE!!!
My sense of aesthetics just exploded!
 ;D

Alvis 3.1

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2014, 03:57:34 AM »

AAIIEEE!!!
My sense of aesthetics just exploded!
 ;D

Alvis 3.1


Think of it as the reverse of the classic story…in this case the Prince/Princess is kissed and then turns into the frog... ;D



« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 04:01:00 AM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2014, 04:43:38 AM »
What about a Sea Hornet NF.21



crossed with APS-20 radar from Avenger TBM-3W.




Hmm!, we'd have to think of an alternative arrangement for the guns, in the wings maybe -----    ???  I wonder if it would need a bigger fin/rudder too ---

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2014, 07:18:49 AM »
USAAF Sea Hornets you say?  How about USN as well?







Did these A LONG time ago when I was on a night fighter kick.  The USAAF one is from a unit that flew P-51s in the Pacific.  The USN ones are from a Hellcat and Corsair night fighter squadron. 

Enjoy  :)
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Offline finsrin

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2014, 07:27:15 AM »
USN Hornets.  Love each one  :-* :-* :-*

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2014, 11:08:00 AM »
USN Hornets.  Love each one  :-* :-* :-*

Surely that should be "USN Sea Hornets"?   ;D ;D

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2014, 11:18:51 AM »

Hmm!, we'd have to think of an alternative arrangement for the guns, in the wings maybe -----    ???  I wonder if it would need a bigger fin/rudder too ---

No need for guns.  This would be AEW only.

May well need to do something for tail though.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline finsrin

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2014, 12:10:20 PM »
USN Hornets.  Love each one  :-* :-* :-*

Surely that should be "USN Sea Hornets"?   ;D ;D

Yes --- USN Sea Hornets.
Optionally:  USN has its own designation and name.  Whatever that might be ?

Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2014, 01:27:52 PM »
Under USN manufacturer designations, DeHavilland was assigned the letters DH, DeHavilland Canada was given C. So a fighter, first one purchased, would either be a FDH, or an FC, although that just looks wrong to me. A later plane would be either an F1C or F1DH. If you jack in a backstory of the USN buying a few Mosquitos, then the Hornet would be the F1DH or F1C.

Name wise, they'd likely stick with the Sea Hornet, or maybe just plain Hornet, IMHO.

USN F1DH-3B Hornet sounds appropriately cumbersome in terminology for one serving during the Korea conflict. It also means the F-18 would have to be called the Hornet 2. :)


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Offline finsrin

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2014, 03:14:43 PM »
Under USN manufacturer designations, DeHavilland was assigned the letters DH, DeHavilland Canada was given C. So a fighter, first one purchased, would either be a FDH, or an FC, although that just looks wrong to me. A later plane would be either an F1C or F1DH. If you jack in a backstory of the USN buying a few Mosquitos, then the Hornet would be the F1DH or F1C.

Name wise, they'd likely stick with the Sea Hornet, or maybe just plain Hornet, IMHO.

USN F1DH-3B Hornet sounds appropriately cumbersome in terminology for one serving during the Korea conflict. It also means the F-18 would have to be called the Hornet 2. :)

Alvis 3.1

Thanks.   Never would have figured that out.
Yes - "sounds appropriately cumbersome in terminology for one serving during the Korea conflict"

Offline jcf

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2014, 02:43:22 AM »
Not exactly, the two-letter DH designator was one of a small series of short-lived two letter designators of
the 1920s-early '30s. The DH designator, per the 1922 standardization, was originally used 1927-1931.
DH aircraft can be confusing because of the use of the DH model number on pre-standardization types,
e.g. DH-4, or adding an X prefix to the model number e.g. XDH-80 for the single D.H. 80 Puss Moth
purchased in 1934 for the USN Attache in London.

The later C for De Havilland Canada was assigned to Otters purchased in 1955-56.

In the WWII period, up to 1946, C was used for Curtiss (21-46), Culver (43-46) and Cessna(43).
Note also that assigment was to manufacturer not designer so only De Havilland built aircraft
would receive the DH or C, as the profiles show with the G designator Goodyear built Sea Hornet.

Fer my money I'd have them built by Canadian Car & Foundry, 1942-45 designator W, and as the first of a type
from a given manufacturer does not have a numeral in the designator, it would be the FW-1,2,3 and on; second
type the F2W-1,2,3 etc.

Greg's suggested AEW variant might be an FW-1W, or an F2W-1W.

An F2W designator would require that the Hornet/Sea Hornet be the second fighter type built by CC&F for the USN,
and there is a way around that. CC&F assembled the Grumman FF-1 under license as the GG-1/G-23 so ...
what if a couple had been bailed back to the USN and designated FW-1? If so, by default the CC&F built Sea
Hornet becomes the F2W.

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“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2014, 10:11:15 AM »
Yeah, what he said.

Gee, I feel dumb now!
:)

Nah, I had a funny feeling the DH designations didn't seem right for a reason. CC@F makes more sense.

Alvis 3.1

Offline kitnut617

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2014, 10:38:44 PM »

Hmm!, we'd have to think of an alternative arrangement for the guns, in the wings maybe -----    ???  I wonder if it would need a bigger fin/rudder too ---

No need for guns.  This would be AEW only.


Ah! right,   another thought then -- second operator, where abouts would he go ---  tandem seating, back-to-back  maybe

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2014, 09:01:15 AM »

Hmm!, we'd have to think of an alternative arrangement for the guns, in the wings maybe -----    ???  I wonder if it would need a bigger fin/rudder too ---

No need for guns.  This would be AEW only.


Ah! right,   another thought then -- second operator, where abouts would he go ---  tandem seating, back-to-back  maybe

I think it's getting a wee cramped in that fuselage when you consider the electronics that you need to fit in as well (and a trifle warm with all those valves)...

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2014, 09:02:17 AM »

Hmm!, we'd have to think of an alternative arrangement for the guns, in the wings maybe -----    ???  I wonder if it would need a bigger fin/rudder too ---

No need for guns.  This would be AEW only.


Ah! right,   another thought then -- second operator, where abouts would he go ---  tandem seating, back-to-back  maybe

I think it's getting a wee cramped in that fuselage when you consider the electronics that you need to fit in as well (and a trifle warm with all those valves)...

Perfect for North Atlantic winters then  ;)
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline Volkodav

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2014, 08:41:13 PM »
How about a pair of Armstrong Siddeley Pythons in place of the Merlins?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: de Havilland Hornet/Sea Hornet Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2014, 10:58:11 PM »

Ah! right,   another thought then -- second operator, where abouts would he go ---  tandem seating, back-to-back  maybe

I think it's getting a wee cramped in that fuselage when you consider the electronics that you need to fit in as well (and a trifle warm with all those valves)...

Jaybee, over on the What-If Forum, is building a Jetstream AEW, he's made a neat radome from details given to him by Joe Cherrie.  It's like one of these APS-20 radomes but smaller.  It could be a better radome to install on the Hornet.


« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 12:52:10 AM by kitnut617 »