Author Topic: Self Propelled Artillery  (Read 49785 times)

Offline jcf

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2013, 05:03:06 AM »
what about a heavy SPG/H based upon the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus or E-100?

Maus? Seriously? I thought this thread was about artillery that can move itself around.  ;D
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2013, 05:18:49 AM »
what about a heavy SPG/H based upon the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus or E-100?

Maus? Seriously? I thought this thread was about artillery that can move itself around.  ;D

There is always the Karl-Gerät  ;D
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Queeg

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2013, 05:44:37 AM »
Maus? Seriously? I thought this thread was about artillery that can move itself around.  ;D


Seriousness .... really ... do we have tooo?

Serious AND self propelled!



Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2013, 06:01:48 AM »
That reminds me of this image of the Swiss Army from the 1930/40s.



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Cheers,

Logan

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2013, 07:57:21 AM »


Who said that the Germans have no sense of humour?  ;D ;D

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2013, 03:11:32 PM »
Ta daaaa...here is one I prepared earlier.

did this as a club comp entry a few years back as a bit of a joke.

 ;D

Offline Weaver

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2013, 07:18:16 PM »



I wonder if that used to be butcher's van before it's conversion........DON'T PANIC HERR KAPITAN!!!!!  ;D
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Offline jschmus

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2013, 11:33:01 PM »
This is only a Photoshopped Koalitsiya-SV, but I had to share:
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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2013, 02:43:37 AM »
I would love to see the result if all guns were fired at once... ;D
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Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2013, 07:00:46 AM »
This is only a Photoshopped Koalitsiya-SV, but I had to share:



HEY YA"LL!! WATCH THIS!!!!! That looks something a redneck here in the colonies would build. ;D
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2014, 01:36:44 PM »
I'm very fascinated by the Turkish upgrade of their M52 SPH...... from 105mm howitzer to 155mm!



Playing World of Tanks got me thinking of all those WWII-era and immediately-post-WWII-era SPH: M7 Priest, M37, Grille, Wespe, AMX-13-based casemate SP, and etc.

Would they have room for any upgrade in gun caliber?  Regardless the source (which includes the likes of Soviet-type 122mm howitzers, if Western-type 155mm ordnances are too much of an increase in ordnance size)?

(In fact, like Logan Hartke, I actually like the Soviet 122mm howitzer a lot......)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 01:32:56 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2014, 12:50:34 AM »
I've long been fascinated by that upgrade, as well. They seem like a very efficient and cheap way to get modern self-propelled 155mm systems.

As for the Soviet 122mm M-30, that's an efficient little gun, isn't it? Again, in general I sort of keep "families" of comparable guns in my mind. Also, remember that a howitzer is usually lighter than the equivalent "gun" (Kanone) artillery for the same caliber. For instance, a 155mm howitzer is lighter than a 155mm gun or 155mm gun-howitzer. Also, as a general rule of thumb, US artillery is a good middle-of-the-road baseline, Soviet artillery is usually lighter (because it is generally of newer design), and German artillery is usually of slightly higher performance, but heavier as a result. Obviously, as the years go by, guns get lighter for the same or better performance.

Theoretically, you could put a Soviet 122mm M-30 in whatever vehicle used a German leFH 18 or a US M2/M101 105mm howitzer. So, a practical upgrade would be a East European or Middle Eastern modification of a Wespe or Grille with a 122mm M-30, instead. I can particularly see Yugoslavia, Syria, or Egypt using such a vehicle. As an example of the equivalence of these weapons, look no further than the German modifications on the Lorraine-Schlepper. They carried the German 10.5cm leFH 18, 15cm sIG 33, and Soviet 122mm M-30 on the same chassis.







You could also modify the Sexton, M7 Priest, or the various AMX Mk 61 equivalents with the same weapon. I think an interesting vehicle would be an open-topped, turreted self-propelled M10 or M36 tank destroyer, but with the gun replaced with the postwar Soviet 122mm D-30 and used in the indirect fire role. Like a poor man's 2S1 Gvozdika. You could also replace the old French 155mm GPF on the M12 with a Soviet 152mm ML-20 gun-howitzer.

I also think something along the lines of the Israeli self-propelled artillery Sherman variants has a lot of potential.



You could take a vehicle like this and put all manner of guns on it. The Soviet ML20 152mm gun-howitzer, postwar Soviet D-20 152mm gun-howitzer, D-74 122mm gun, M-46 130mm gun, or even Bull's fabulous 155mm GC-45 variants. This same range of weapons would obviously apply to similar post-war SPGs like the M40/M43, M41 "Gorilla", and the aforementioned M44 and M52.

The M37 HMC's layout makes it a bit difficult to put anything too big in it because most larger guns would be incapable of high angle fire in the standard mount. The Soviet 122mm U-11 would work, as would the German leFH 18/1, but there's really not much else of the same caliber or larger. I have long thought, however, that it would make for a good self-propelled mortar vehicle, like the experimental T37 4.2-inch SPM.



It wouldn't be hard to convert an M37 to this configuration and it could easily take a 120mm mortar and possibly even a 160mm mortar.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2014, 10:40:36 PM »
The M37 HMC's layout makes it a bit difficult to put anything too big in it because most larger guns would be incapable of high angle fire in the standard mount. The Soviet 122mm U-11 would work, as would the German leFH 18/1, but there's really not much else of the same caliber or larger.

I am having the idea of a Churchill tank upgraded with the U-11 (or some what-if, non-Soviet tank howitzer development of the M-30, in keeping with the theme of the KV-9 on a chassis that have hopefully-more-numerous surviving examples post-WWII), so M37 HMC with 122mm howitzer would definitely be on the card for me if do-able.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2014, 11:21:36 PM »
That's the armament on the M37s I have in my hypothetical TOE. I do want to make one warning about the Churchill, though. I've been reading a good deal about it lately and it was always considered to be "cantankerous" mechanically. It was terrible starting off and was eventually improved, but was never reliable in the same way as a Sherman, for instance. I'd be wary about any extended use of the vehicle in anything but a specialist role.

I was recently reading of the Churchill's use in Korea, and the UN commander in the area where the Churchill unit was operating ordered them to participate in patrols, an order that greatly concerned the Churchill unit commander since he knew his tanks were not suited that sort of use. It was not a "general use" tank. It was a tank that operated very well in niche roles. Try to use it in a role that required it to drive any sort of distance and you'd quickly discover its limitations.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2014, 12:55:04 AM »
That's the armament on the M37s I have in my hypothetical TOE. I do want to make one warning about the Churchill, though. I've been reading a good deal about it lately and it was always considered to be "cantankerous" mechanically. It was terrible starting off and was eventually improved, but was never reliable in the same way as a Sherman, for instance. I'd be wary about any extended use of the vehicle in anything but a specialist role.

My upgraded Churchill idea (and my analog of Claymore's "Big Mac" posted in my mental note thread, for that matter) is indeed intended primarily for infantry support.  Both 122mm howitzer and 105mm gun are more potent in the HE department than the 75mm and 17-pounder, respectively, and are standardized weapons; having good HEAT and AP capabilities are just gravy in this case.

My general-use tank of choice in that geratria army setting would be Sherman, too.  What did the Americans do with surplus Sherman Jumbos?

(Sherman Jumbo with U-11 analog...... well that'd be kinda in line with the KV-9, too  ;) )
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 03:59:57 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2014, 02:28:52 AM »
Indeed. As I understand it, there weren't too many surplus Jumbos after WWII and those that existed were probably well-worn mechanically. There weren't very many built to begin with and they were largely used up in WWII. I know there was a plan to bring back what was left to the US for refurbishment in order to use them in the Invasion of Japan, but I'm pretty sure that nothing happened there, likely because of the atomic bombs.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline dy031101

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2014, 04:03:25 AM »
As I understand it, there weren't too many surplus Jumbos after WWII and those that existed were probably well-worn mechanically. There weren't very many built to begin with and they were largely used up in WWII.

I guess one can always pull an Expedient Jumbo à la WWII US Third Army, whether Sherman or Jackson.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2014, 05:28:55 AM »
I certainly don't see why you couldn't, especially with all the Shermans available for scrap after WWII.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2014, 08:32:55 AM »
Jumbo Shermans were heavily overloaded and very prone to mechanical problems.  The suspension/gear train/engine were pushed to their limits.  It was an emergency response to the need for an assault tank (and resulted in something extremely reminiscent of an "I" tank).  Personally, I think the US Army would have been better off adopting the Churchill Mk.VII.

Postwar, the Jumbos were scrapped because of their unreliability and because they didn't fit into post-war US Army thinking on how armour should be employed.  Of course, there was no guarantee the next war, like the last war, was going to conform to that thinking.  The M26 offered similar performance in everything except protection, so that was going to be the next assault tank.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2014, 12:04:48 PM »




Here's an awesome vehicle that I think a few people on the forum would appreciate. I really like the look of it.

Russia develops a new 6x6 self-propelled howitzer based on Volk armoured and 2B16 120mm gun.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2014, 07:07:38 AM »
Interesting
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2015, 07:24:54 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2015, 07:37:50 AM »
Does anyone know of a 1/35 kit of the Bandkanon 1:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2015, 02:54:06 PM »


The Donar is a very interesting vehicle.  It initially used an MRLS chassis but switched to one using ASCOD automotive components.  The weapon system, including ammunition stowage and autoloader are contained entirely in the turret (hence its height) and could theoretically be emplaced on pre-prepared platforms, or even on a towed mobile platform.