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Apophenia's Offerings
GTX_Admin:
:smiley:
Logan Hartke:
Hey apophenia, I just had an idea you might like to play with. I recently read that Brazil donated some of its retired M108APs to Uruguay.
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/brazil-aims-to-donate-howitzers-urutu-apcs-to-cash-strapped-uruguay/
Confession, I've always hated the anemic look of the M108. The gun is just way too small for the turret and chassis. I think some users may have converted them into M109s, but other uses might be to remove the turret altogether and place a larger gun in the same position (like the Taiwanese XT-69 or Egyptian SP-122) or converting them into a driver training or C2 vehicle like the Belgians did with the M108 VBCL. All of these are practical, but kind of boring.
So, I started thinking, was there another weapon that doesn't have the recoil of a 155mm gun, but might be an attractive upgrade option for a user that comes into a large number of surplus M108s?
I think you could either replace the gun in the existing M108 turret or do a full turret upgrade with the T7 turret that they tried out on the LAV III.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/south-african-artillery-cannon-guns-prototypes-projects-concepts-etc.22573/
Anyway, feel free to play with the idea or not, but I think you explored some Denel G7 105mm concepts on the old CASR site.
Cheers,
Logan
Gingie:
--- Quote from: apophenia on August 11, 2022, 02:13:48 AM ---
Bottom Centurion C.26 - DFSV (Direct Fire Support Vehicle) variant mounting a Bofors 57 mm LPT gun. This automatic cannon was very similar to the Bofors 57 mm L/70 Mk 3 arming Canadian Navy Halifax class frigates. Outwardly, the Teledyne LPT looked very similar, inwardly it was specifically adapted for the 57 mm L/70 gun and its ammunition. [1]
The vehicle shown is one of the last serving Centurion variants in Canadian service. By the time of the CF deployment to Kandahar, all Centurion C.23 tanks had been replaced by Leopard 2A6Ms. But DND's Multi-Mission Effects Vehicle (MMEV) programme had fallen seriously behind schedule. As a result, the Centurion C.26 was the only DFSV type available for deployment. Lack of preparedness was partly revealed by the 'bum bustle' surrounding a tacked-on air conditioning unit. More anti-RPG 'fencing' shielded the base of the LPT itself.
Another 'Kandahar mod' was the fitting of a 'rooftop' Protected Weapon Station armed with a C6 GPMG. [2] Here that PWS is being used to 'check 6' - that weapon system's optics being superior to the C.26's rear vision cameras. This vehicle
As the Canadian Force prepared for their withdrawl from Afghanistan, vehicle training for Afghan National Army crews began on the DFSV Centurions at Camp Nathan Smith. Upon withdrawl, the ANA commenced operational use of the Centurion C.26s. Although left with considerable stocks of spares, C.26 servicability was poor in ANA service and the Afghan Centurions were idle by mid-2016.
With the end of Canadian Forces operations in Afghanistan, this last CF Centurion variant was finally retired. However, the 57 mm LPTs were refurbished and updated by BAE Systems to arm the LAV-MGS (Mobile Gun Systems) - part of DND's MMEV (Multi-Mission Effects Vehicle) system. A heavier, anti-tank variant was also proposed within the MMEV scheme. This concept was not realized. Instead, the rebuilt 105 mm L7 LPTs were installed on the new CCV-MGS (Close Combat Vehicle) based on the Swedish CV90 hull.
______________________________
[1] The Bofors L/70 gun's smaller rounds - 57 × 438 mm R versus 105 × 617 R for the tank gun - allowed a larger ammunition carousel (carrying 15 ready rounds instead of only nine).
[2] C6 GPMG is the Canadian designation for the FN MAG 58. The PWS was a Canadian-built version of the Israeli Rafael Mini-Samson remote weapon system. Later the PWS would be classed under the US Joint Army-Navy Nomenclature System as the AN/MWG 505 RWS.
--- End quote ---
Can you share this & the other RCAC Cent LPT on the Canadian What If page? https://www.facebook.com/groups/228625345167056
(I'm on my 6th 30-day FB ban this year, so no posting for me again)
apophenia:
--- Quote from: Logan Hartke on August 17, 2022, 04:07:23 AM ---Hey apophenia, I just had an idea you might like to play with. I recently read that Brazil donated some of its retired M108APs to Uruguay. ...
I think you could either replace the gun in the existing M108 turret or do a full turret upgrade with the T7 turret that they tried out on the LAV III...
--- End quote ---
Thanks for that Logan! A new turret might be a bit much for the Uruguayan budget. But I really like your idea of substituting a D-30 (kind of like the Egyptian SPH-122 mod. to their M-109).
Yeah, gotta do that :smiley:
--- Quote from: Gingie on August 17, 2022, 11:22:14 PM ---Can you share this & the other RCAC Cent LPT on the Canadian What If page? https://www.facebook.com/groups/228625345167056
(I'm on my 6th 30-day FB ban this year, so no posting for me again)
--- End quote ---
Thanks Graeme. I'd love to but I'm not a member(?) of the Zuckerberg Imperium :P
But congrats on your sixth 30-day ban! You must be doing something right ... and the year is only half over :smiley:
Maybe I should join FB. I'm sure I could conjure up some sort of 'objectionable content' ;D
apophenia:
This is about the last Swedish armour updates of the 1980s. The Stridsvagn 1988 programme was intended to produce final upgrades for the strv 103 'S-Tank' and Sweden's multiple Centurion variants - the strv 101R, strv 102R, and strv 104. [1] The object was to provide the pansarbrigader with suitable mounts until the advanced Stridsvagn 2000 replacement programme matured.
As it happened, none of the Strv 1988 S-Tank upgrade proposals were acceptable to the Försvarets materielverk (FMV) - Sweden's defence procurement agency. But two Centurion submissions were considered. [2] These were from Hägglunds & Söner AB at Örnsköldsvik and AB Bofors of Karlskoga. [3]
'Gå stort eller gå hem!' - Hägglunds' Stridsvagn 1988 Proposal
Hägglunds & Söner submitted the most extensive modification proposal for Strv 2000. Under this proposal, Centurion hulls would receive an armour upgrade package while retaining Blazer-pansar ERA 'bricks'. 'Diesel-pansar' - in the form of fender-top built-in tanks as well as rows of strv 103-style jerry cans along either track-side - would be added to further increase protection. The drive wheels would be protected by gallerpansar (bar armour) with pansarkedjor (chain armour) suspended fore and aft.
Pansarkedjor would also protect the underside of the bustle of an entirely new turret. This turret would entirely clad in kompositparsar (composite armour) panels. Main armament would be the Bofors L74M L/62 gun - the former 10,5 cm kanon strv 103. The 'S-Tank' was also to be the source of the new tank's commander's cupola. A range of options for gun sights and other optics were offered to go with Hägglunds' submission to the Strv 2000 programme.
'A Modest Proposal' - the AB Bofors Strv 1988 Proposal
The Strv 2000 proposal from AB Bofors built on that firm's successful Strv 104 upgrade. Two major changes distinguished the Bofors concept from the recent Strv 104 conversions. First was an increase in engine power - the existing 750 hp Teledyne Continental AVDS-1790-2AC diesels were to be upgraded to 908 hp AVDS-1790-5A standards. Second was cladding the forward arc of the original Centurion turret in kompositpansar panels. For initial conversions, the main armament would be the existing 10,5 cm kan strv 101 (or Royal Ordnance L7 L/54 gun).
The original Centurion's kjolpansar (skirt armour) was retained as was the strv 104's Blazer-pansar ERA. To add more protection to the forward hull, a gallerpansar 'fence' was placed in front of the glacis plate. Other up-armouring options included another 'fence' aft of the hull rear and chain armour closing the turret bustle gap - this pansarkedjor being 'woven' rather than dangling (as per the Hägglunds Strv 1988 proposal). Bolt-on ceramic armour plates could also be added to the extended turret bustle.
An Interim Interim ... the Strv 108 Upgrade
The FMV concluded that the Bofors proposal best suited the needs of the Pansartrupper. Although a modest improvement over the strv 104, the newly-designated strv 108 [4] upgrade was judged adequate until the future Strv 2000 became available. The upgrades were to be applied in a series of REMO (Renovering och modifiering). Each completed REMO would result in a new sub-type letter. These were:
Strv 108A : Turret upgrades (including kompositpansar panels); forward gallerpansar 'fence'
- Strv 108A1 = upgraded strv 101R; Strv 108A2 = upgraded strv 102R; Strv 108A3 = upgraded strv 104
Strv 108B : Engine upgraded to AVDS-1790-5A (with IMI assistance); sub-type numbers as above
Strv 108C : Hull armour upgrade (lower glacis kompositpansar & rear gallerpansar 'fence'
Strv 108D : Main gun barrel change to Bofors L74M L/62 gun; strv 103C commander's cupola added.
_________________________________________
[1] Recent Centurion upgrade were judged obsolete before they could be launched. As a result, the Strv 105 remained a one-off prototype while the Strv 106 never left the drawing board.
[2] Two other submissions were rejected at an early stage - one from FFV Företagen AB of Eskilstuna (with foreign partner Teledyne), the other from Volvo (partnered with Oto Melara).
[3] By decree, Hägglunds and Bofors worked separately on Stridsvagn 1988 designs. Their joint firm, H-B Utveckling AB (for 'Hägglunds-Bofors Development') was banned from the contest to maintain its focus on completing the Stridsvagn 2000 concepts.
[4] The strv 107 designation had been reserved for a potential strv 103D follow-on.
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