Author Topic: Engine comparison  (Read 3271 times)

Offline kengeorge

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Engine comparison
« on: May 19, 2023, 06:21:04 AM »
I have had an idea to bring back the TSR.2, and need some advice about what engines to power it. Are there, or have been a comparable turbofan built in the West to rival the Olympus BOl.22R Mk.320 that was intended for the TSR.2?

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Re: Engine comparison
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2023, 02:12:36 AM »
What era are you looking at?
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Engine comparison
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2023, 03:21:07 AM »
If you mean fully modern Western turbofans, the the closest match for the BSEL Olympus Mk 320 is probably the F110-GE-132.

BOl.22R Olympus      F110-GE-132
Reheat turbojet      Reheat turbofan
L = 152.2 in (no A/B?)   L = 181.9 in
D = 40 inches      D = 46.5 inches max
Dry = 3,615 lb (no A/B)   Dry = 3,920 lb
T/O = 30,610 lbf reheat*   T/O = 32,500 lbf reheat

* Some sources say 33,000 lbf 'wet' for the Mk 320.
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Offline kengeorge

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Re: Engine comparison
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2023, 06:15:38 AM »
The era I'm looking at is around the early to mid eighties. If there isn't anything suitable then I'll go with the Olympus as in the original. I did consider the Orenda Iroqouis, or a Conway with afterburner as an alternative.

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Re: Engine comparison
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2023, 01:57:18 AM »
Given Concorde is still in early service at that time you could just use a variant of the Rolls-Royce/Snecma Olympus 593 to get both greater performance and known capability.

Engine   Olympus MK.320   RR/SNECMA Olympus 593 Mk.610   P&W F100-220   F101-GE-102   F110-GE-100
Length   ??   7.2m   5.283m   4.59m   4.623m
Diameter   1.215m   1.215m   1.181m   1.135m   1.181m
Dry Weight   ??   4529kg   P&W F100   2018kg   1767 kg
Thrust Dry   30,610 dbf (136.159 KN)   31,232 lbf (139.46KN)   14,670 dbf (65.255 KN)   17,390 dbf (77.355 KN)   18,330 dbf (81.536 KN)
Thrust AB   33.000 dbf (147.791 KN)   37,081 lbf (164.945 KN)   23,830 dbf (106 KN)   30,780 dbf (136.916 KN)   28,620 dbf (127.308 KN)

I wasn't able to find the full length (with AB) or Weight (with AB) of the Olympus MK.320 but I am going to hazard a guess that they would be close to those for the RR/SNECMA Olympus 593.  Based upon this, and looking at the time period, I believe the F101-GE-102 which is the engine from the B-1B would be a good choice.  It's thrust might be a little lower but if you factor in probably much lower weight and more modern capability and probably better SFC you would come out on tops.  Plus having some commonality with the USAF can't hurt.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 02:23:34 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline kengeorge

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Re: Engine comparison
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2023, 02:12:13 AM »
Thanks Greg, those comparisons are very useful. The RR/SNECMA Olympus 593 Mk.610 could be a viable contender for what I have in mind

Ken

Offline jcf

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Re: Engine comparison
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2023, 09:11:22 AM »
From Damien Burke's TSR.2 history page on his Thunder & Lightnings site:
"Strangely, in 1979, there was a proposal to revive the TSR2 programme, with an eccentric
chap suggesting possible modifications to bring it up to date (square intakes with variable
ramps like Concorde, modern electronics, Olympus 593 engines as per Concorde and so on)
and badgering government and RAF departments with letters about resurrecting the aircraft.
As he suggested using XR220 and XR222 as prototypes for this 'new' TSR2 and the Tornado
was not far away from flying, it was frankly no wonder that this idea went nowhere."


The overall length of the 593 - intake flange to exhaust flange w/out AB is 148.4"(3.769 m).
The 593 has a 7 stage LP compressor, the 301 and 320 (which was based on the 301) have
6 stage LP compressor. The 301 length and diameter are 128"(3.255 m) and 44.5"(1.13 m),
respectively. On all of the afterburning versions of the Olympus engine the AB is a separate
assembly.
Numbers from JAWA 1968-69.

Are you sure about the 320 having the same diameter as the 593? In photos it doesn't appear
to be as massive as the 593. Photo of 593s being assembled.


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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Engine comparison
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2023, 01:08:35 AM »
Not entirely sure to be honest - exact data seems hard to come by.  Mind you if anyone get's near Gosford they could go measure... ;)



CFBV

Mind you, I still feel that the F101-GE-102 would have been a good modern substitute.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 01:18:25 AM by GTX_Admin »
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