Author Topic: Amphibious Inspiration  (Read 5707 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Amphibious Inspiration
« on: May 08, 2023, 04:01:53 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2023, 06:31:01 AM »
lots of floaty busses around ... most based on LARCs.

Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2023, 06:48:37 AM »
A somewhat lighter side of Amphibious landings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmAOGn4XC9M

Real World Proposal, but just had to be built of course. I got to display a 17 Pdr AT Gun in an interesting way

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2023, 08:47:05 AM »
Love the video, BT, but the comments from below it explain it better;

Quote from: Gareth T
Time for the truth as I was there when this was filmed. This was Um Qasr port in Iraq in late 2003 on Operation Telic 2 'the Marines' are not marines but were 40 regiment royal artillery and were to do this as training. The boat was crewed by Royal Engineers and we did tell them that the beach was basically mud but being artillery they did not listen
Quote from: Goatman333
I was in Umm Qasr until July 2003.....great video :-) I think whoever gave them the designated Landing point knew perfectly well there was a great big mud-hole there  :-D ....the best bit is the Hazardous Duty Life Jackets inflating the second they get wet.....classic pisstake movie :-D . On a count of three gennelmen:  ' Time Spent In Reconnaissance Is Never Wasted ' ! :-D

The 17-pounder on the LVT is cool! 8)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2023, 08:54:44 AM »
https://youtu.be/evQF7SJt2p0

This would be one of the inspirations for that but there were much earlier ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw37uqJ4G88
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2023, 11:04:09 AM »
lots of floaty busses around ... most based on LARCs.

I wish someone would build new real world replacements for the DUKWs and LARCs out there. Some are not to seaworthy anymore.

I wonder if a Revell PT109 hull would fit on a truck chassis?

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2023, 01:35:39 PM »
lots of floaty busses around ... most based on LARCs.

I wish someone would build new real world replacements for the DUKWs and LARCs out there. Some are not to seaworthy anymore.


They do:
Seahorse, GRP hulls, Hybrid-Electric or Diesel-Hydraulic powertrains, steerable Z-drive propeller or water jet
propulsion.


https://www.seahorseamphibious.com/our-seahorses/

https://www.seahorseamphibious.com/gallery/

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Dr. YoKai

  • Was in High School when mastadons roamed the plains...
  • A notorious curmudgeon who is partial to...hemp!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2023, 10:51:35 PM »
Lots of potential in some of the Japanese Amphibious projects...


Offline Dr. YoKai

  • Was in High School when mastadons roamed the plains...
  • A notorious curmudgeon who is partial to...hemp!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2023, 11:04:10 PM »
And I remain moderately pleased about my own TH-34/85

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2023, 02:30:53 AM »

I wish someone would build new real world replacements for the DUKWs and LARCs out there. Some are not to seaworthy anymore.


Things are happening on this front under Australia's Land 8710 program.  See Varley's Ganyarra:



https://varleygroupstaging.com.au/defence-projects/land-domain-project-test-01/
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2023, 09:44:55 AM »
 8) :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2023, 10:35:34 AM »
Looks great! I’ll take one to drive north to the Wisconsin Dells and drive into the river with all the other DUKWs!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 11:11:03 AM by Kerick »

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2023, 07:32:13 AM »
And now for something totally different !!    3D files available !

I'll do a page in the inspiration thread in the next few days

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2023, 12:37:30 PM »
Ping pong balls for the wheels! I don’t know where you would find the body!
Does that sound weird to you?


Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2023, 03:25:11 PM »
Ping pong balls for the wheels! I don’t know where you would find the body!
Does that sound weird to you?

Ping Pong balls work, depending on the subject

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2023, 12:24:19 PM »
What about a hydrocopter?
Goes on water, ice, and (in a pinch) land. Especially useful when the ice is too weak for land vehicles and too strong for boats.


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Amphibian_NE_hydrokopteri_Forum_Marinum_3.JPG

Offline LemonJello

  • MARPAT Master
  • Moderator
  • Member number 100...WooHoo!!!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2023, 08:21:52 PM »
What about a hydrocopter?
Goes on water, ice, and (in a pinch) land. Especially useful when the ice is too weak for land vehicles and too strong for boats.


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Amphibian_NE_hydrokopteri_Forum_Marinum_3.JPG

That needs to be done!

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2023, 01:57:34 AM »
 :smiley: :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2023, 02:13:37 AM »
Random idea if anyone wants to take it up:  Nimda Co Ltd is an Israeli company that does vehicle upgrades .  These are the folks who are responsible for the Achzarit Heavy APC converted from T-54/55s.  Another platform they do upgrades for is the Amphibious PT-76.  You can see the details here and a picture below:



In short it includes:

  • New Diesel Engine
  • New Added Machine Gun Stations
  • Mobility Improvement
  • a new 90 mm Cockerill tank gun
  • New F.C.S including night vision

It is in service with Indonesia.

I wonder if this could have been developed further and perhaps given ATGMs or even a 60mm HVMS (High Velocity Medium Support) gun.


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2023, 02:17:43 AM »
It's a pity the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (EFV)/Advanced Amphibious Assault Vehicle (AAAV) was cancelled as it offered some exciting possibilities:



All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline LemonJello

  • MARPAT Master
  • Moderator
  • Member number 100...WooHoo!!!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2023, 10:17:36 PM »
I wanted to get a ride in one of the prototypes while I was in uniform, but never had the opportunity.  I have some knock-off AAVs that I keep looking at, trying to figure how to use them as donors for a WhIf EFV.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2023, 11:23:50 AM »
Different colour schemes:





All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2023, 11:49:45 AM »
Does this constitute an airborne amphibious vehicle? ;)

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2023, 12:00:02 PM »
 :o


Must be the Taiwanese* SEALs (SEa, Air, Land). ;D




[*: I say Taiwanese because the emblem on the hull side, just below the turret, looks like the Taiwanese Marines badge. But I could be wrong.]
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2023, 03:13:50 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2023, 08:22:30 AM »
Belly-Flop !!! ;D

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2023, 06:50:56 AM »
... a stretched Stalwart !  Just how long an extension can they do to this vehicle ?

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2023, 03:14:24 PM »
About 30 years? ???

 ;)

On a more serious note: Not much more than the Stolly in the photo. Anything significantly longer will become too difficult to steer, both on land &, more significantly. in water, & will become too unstable on water unless significant ballast is included in the extension (which would make it too heavy on land).
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2023, 01:33:59 AM »
A couple of Bell concepts from the '70s.



“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2023, 02:03:24 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2023, 05:09:52 PM »
The on-looking tankers don't look too impressed in the lower image. ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Online Story

  • Nicht mein Zirkus, nicht meine Affen...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2023, 11:51:27 PM »

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2023, 01:03:33 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2023, 01:19:01 AM »
Possible inspiration from this image:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2023, 01:27:52 AM »
Project 748 Amphibious Submarine, perfect for retaking Alaska
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/soviet-navy-project-748-submarine-landing-ship.8288/

Looks like a couple of Typhoon hulls and plastic sheets and away you go!
If this was in the 60s or so with all that flat deck it could carry and launch several helicopters. Store them in that extended sail from that one drawing.

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2023, 02:47:06 AM »
Here's something from Conceptships by Alex Reis.
The second one may not have floats but that wouldn't take much imagineering.








Online Story

  • Nicht mein Zirkus, nicht meine Affen...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2023, 12:51:38 PM »




Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2023, 04:00:55 AM »
A couple of Bell concepts from the '70s.

Nice! The Bell/DHC-5 'Puffalo' goes armoured  :smiley:
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz

Offline Dr. YoKai

  • Was in High School when mastadons roamed the plains...
  • A notorious curmudgeon who is partial to...hemp!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2023, 09:30:29 PM »


The wonderfully named Oruktor Amphibolos of 1805. Little is known about how well it actually worked, but a weight of seventeen tons for
a powerplant of approximately five horsepower...It was intended to serve as a dredger, but was evidently unsuccessful in that role.

The inventor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Evans

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2023, 03:46:20 AM »
I like

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2023, 10:34:37 AM »
Me too!

Here is Charles F. Kettering's take on Oliver Evans and the Orukter Amphibolos"
-- https://todayinsci.com/stories2/story013.htm

OT: You've gotta love Google. First I'm asked: Did you mean: "Uroktor Amphibolous". For fun, I say 'Yes'. Then I'm told: No results found for "Uroktor Amphibolous".

If this is a demonstration of the current state of AI, I'm guessing we really don't have to worry about our 'robot masters' for a while  ;)
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2023, 01:56:23 AM »
Ah, the Landwasserschlepper a classically German approach to a problem.  ;D

Hans:We need to land troops and material on a beach and drive out of the water.
Fritz: Ya, lets put tracks on a tug and tow barges to shore.


US: What if we put tracks on a barge?
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2023, 01:57:36 AM »
Me too!

Here is Charles F. Kettering's take on Oliver Evans and the Orukter Amphibolos"
-- https://todayinsci.com/stories2/story013.htm

OT: You've gotta love Google. First I'm asked: Did you mean: "Uroktor Amphibolous". For fun, I say 'Yes'. Then I'm told: No results found for "Uroktor Amphibolous".

If this is a demonstration of the current state of AI, I'm guessing we really don't have to worry about our 'robot masters' for a while  ;)

 ;D
Especially as AI doesn't exist.
 ;D
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2023, 05:13:45 PM »
What about a hydrocopter?
Goes on water, ice, and (in a pinch) land. Especially useful when the ice is too weak for land vehicles and too strong for boats.


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Amphibian_NE_hydrokopteri_Forum_Marinum_3.JPG

Love the concept and this object too!!! :smiley: :smiley:

Offline Buzzbomb

  • Low Concentration Span, oft wanders betwixt projects
  • Accurate Scale representations of fictional stuff
    • Club and my stuff site
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2023, 01:38:44 PM »
Almost have the bench clear enough of other projects to get into this GB.
I looked at an old build for inspiration, a Hovercraft APC based on the Starfist Series by  David Sherman and Dan Cragg.  I reckon I will have a go at something down this line
Hovercraft armoured APC.. or tank... depends on the starting point kit that works for me.



it is a Scaleorama 1/35 LVTP to 1/48 so that a whole platoon can fit in... it has a full interior as well. Ahh back to the days of youthful enthusiasm for projects of this scope.

Offline LemonJello

  • MARPAT Master
  • Moderator
  • Member number 100...WooHoo!!!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2023, 09:13:33 PM »
Now THAT is truly inspirational, Buzzbomb!

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2023, 01:52:39 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Online Story

  • Nicht mein Zirkus, nicht meine Affen...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2023, 12:46:25 PM »



Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2023, 06:27:40 AM »
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2023, 07:37:18 AM »
Seems the Ruskis put more thought into their version of the DUKW - they modified the rear end to fold down making loading easier.

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2023, 10:31:57 AM »
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2023, 10:45:48 AM »
East German Type 108 Landingship.

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2023, 09:18:40 AM »
water-jet powered school-bus ...


Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2023, 12:02:04 PM »
It’s a water Weinermobile!

Supposedly changing the name to frankmobile to showcase beef franks. I think some Karen complained about the word weiner.

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2023, 08:36:21 AM »

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Amphibious Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2023, 01:40:05 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.