Author Topic: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 15804 times)

Offline dy031101

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Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« on: December 15, 2015, 02:21:03 PM »
Unbuilt version with two 75mm recoilless guns and one 30mm Mk103:





More pictures of the model here.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 05:11:40 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 02:52:34 AM »
Interesting.  I have never heard of this proposed version.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 09:50:26 AM »
Can I add here Panzerkampfwagen III?


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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 02:42:19 AM »
Go for it
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 04:06:28 AM »
^^^^^
Can you update title of thread?

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 11:17:41 AM »
Geschutzwagen IVb is derived from Panzer III, as indicated by wheels; or from Panzer IV as the name indicate?

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/98447.aspx?page=1

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 12:06:02 PM »
It was based on the Panzer IV

Random idea: use turret on Panther to great Panther SPH
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 11:43:03 PM »
Geschutzwagen IVb is derived from Panzer III, as indicated by wheels; or from Panzer IV as the name indicate?

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/98447.aspx?page=1


It's PzKpfw IV, but with one fewer set of roadwheels on a shortened hull, so that's why you probably think it looks Pz III-like. Ironically, just having PzKpfw IV suspension units isn't enough to say that it's based on a Pz IV chassis. The Hummel and Nashorn, for instance, were based on a hybrid Pz III/IV chassis. It takes the driving and steering system from the Pz III and the suspension and engine from the Pz IV.

Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2016, 05:44:51 AM »
Stug III with 88mm gun:

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2016, 09:20:25 AM »
How about instead of the Panther the Germans simply updated the Panzer IV with the required features, sloped hull armour (perhaps a common angle to the Jagdpanzer IV for standardisation purposes) and if the L70 is not possible maybe an intermediate similar to the British 77mm HV vs the 17pdr.  Improved suspension would also be good and maybe an improved trans and engine.

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2016, 03:46:54 AM »
How about instead of the Panther the Germans simply updated the Panzer IV with the required features, sloped hull armour (perhaps a common angle to the Jagdpanzer IV for standardisation purposes) and if the L70 is not possible maybe an intermediate similar to the British 77mm HV vs the 17pdr.  Improved suspension would also be good and maybe an improved trans and engine.


Maybe something akin to the Panzer IV Ausf. H Kruppvorschlag:


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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2016, 07:15:37 PM »
Yep.

Actually planning something similar with a Comet and maybe a Cromwell, sloped nose and bigger gun.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2016, 07:43:04 PM »
Yep.

Actually planning something similar with a Comet and maybe a Cromwell, sloped nose and bigger gun.

I've done this, a long, long, long time ago.   You end up with something looking like a miniature Centurion.  Its one way of seeing the ancestry of the Centurion.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2016, 10:22:15 PM »
Yep.

Actually planning something similar with a Comet and maybe a Cromwell, sloped nose and bigger gun.

I've done this, a long, long, long time ago.   You end up with something looking like a miniature Centurion.  Its one way of seeing the ancestry of the Centurion.

That's pretty much what I was thinking.  The back story would be Australia, after license producing something else (maybe the Matilda Medium I've been rabbiting on about for ages) Australia decides they need a more modern replacement and select the A24/27 but are able to modify the design, as they had done with the Matilda to incorporate various improvements.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2018, 07:14:06 AM »
StuG III '46

« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 07:19:10 AM by ysi_maniac »

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 01:34:31 PM »
Been doing a bit of research for an idea I had relating to the use of axis equipment captured in North Africa and the Middle East in South East Asia.  One of the ideas was captured STUG IIIs (as well as other vehicles) could have been shipped to Australia for refurbishment and employment in continental defence, freeing up many of the Stuarts, Grants and Lees (the later used only in Australia and mostly for training) for other Allies in theatres where they would actually see combat use.

The various marks of STUG obtained would initially be employed in an adhoc manner to flesh out newly formed armoured units but then as things settled down they would be cycled through base workshops and modified to a close to common standard, including regunning.  Thinking 6pdr and 75mm M-1 (or M-2/3) Pack Howitzer, or perhaps a 25pdr.  As a war emergency option it is not deployed outside Australia but is retained until replaced in the late 40s, early 50s, by an E10 derived 77mm TD. 

Maybe Panzer III tanks could also be supplied and modified with various ways, also being retained into the early 50s.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 06:08:59 PM »
The Norwegians used Panzer IIIs until the early-mid 1960s, left over from the German occupation during the war.  They replaced them with M24s, which they later upgraded with a 90mm low-pressure gun.   A clear case where the environment determined the size/weight of the vehicle that could be used.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2018, 01:37:44 AM »
Not great tanks but also available were the captured Italian M13/40 and M11/39 tanks operated by the Cavalry regiments in North Africa.
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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2018, 06:35:33 AM »
What about some Stugs in Israeli service?
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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2018, 01:51:43 AM »
Random idea:  Germany's Blitzkrieg tactic was all about speed.  What if as part of this, they became enamoured with the Christie suspension solution as did others at time (e.g. the Soviets with the BT series and the Brits with the cruiser tanks) with the eventual result of the Panzer III/IV both having Christie suspension instead of their torsion-bar solutions?  Could make for some different looking creations.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2018, 01:33:08 PM »
I've always felt the Cromwell and Comet hulls to have similar aesthetics to those of Panzer III and IV.  Although the crew positions would need to be mirrored.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 12:19:14 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2018, 08:24:37 AM »
Random idea:  Germany's Blitzkrieg tactic was all about speed.  What if as part of this, they became enamoured with the Christie suspension solution as did others at time (e.g. the Soviets with the BT series and the Brits with the cruiser tanks) with the eventual result of the Panzer III/IV both having Christie suspension instead of their torsion-bar solutions?  Could make for some different looking creations.

For modelling purposes, you could start with the Christie suspension from the PzKpfw II Ausf. D and just add an extra roadwheel per side.
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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2018, 01:17:02 AM »
Random idea:  Germany's Blitzkrieg tactic was all about speed.  What if as part of this, they became enamoured with the Christie suspension solution as did others at time (e.g. the Soviets with the BT series and the Brits with the cruiser tanks) with the eventual result of the Panzer III/IV both having Christie suspension instead of their torsion-bar solutions?  Could make for some different looking creations.

For modelling purposes, you could start with the Christie suspension from the PzKpfw II Ausf. D and just add an extra roadwheel per side.

Errr...the Ausf. D variant had torsion bar suspension as far as I was aware. ???
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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2018, 01:32:59 AM »
Having said that, maybe I should have done more research myself:  PzIII Ausf. A with essentially Christie suspension:




See here for more:  http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/01/pzkpfwiii-ausf-christie-german-style.html
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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2020, 03:55:06 AM »
Does anyone know how many Nashorn Panzerjägers (see below)might have been left remaining at the end of the war?  I am wondering about some finding their way to the middle east (be that in Israeli or Arab service).

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2020, 11:26:43 AM »
There never were that many Nashorns produced.  However, you could have the Russians, in a fit of madness decide that they should support Israel (as they did in real life it just never eventuated to any hardware) give them a whole load of old German hardware such as Stugs or Panzerjagers of even Panzer IVs.  Russia was the first country to recognise Israel officially...   

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2020, 02:10:38 AM »
There were 474 produced.  I am thinking of a story whereby maybe a handful (5 - 10) are sent to the middle east after the war.  Perhaps from schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 525 in Italy.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2020, 09:43:18 AM »
There were 474 produced.  I am thinking of a story whereby maybe a handful (5 - 10) are sent to the middle east after the war.  Perhaps from schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 525 in Italy.

I think the Italians would be more interested in keeping them for themselves...  The Bulgarians got rid of a load of Stugs and Panzer IVs to the Syrians,  why not to the Israelis instead?

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2020, 02:20:14 AM »
I must admit that I have taken a liking to the look of the various Munitionsschlepper.  I really like the way the main hatch looks:

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Offline newtonk

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2020, 12:13:42 PM »
I really like the look of this bergepanzer III in the last days of the battle for Berlin... a mobile pill box. Complete with ostkettin, too.

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2020, 01:48:46 AM »
Interesting - I have seen that same photo (or a bigger version) reported as being in Königsberg 1945 reportedly fitted with MG 151/20.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2023, 03:06:21 PM »
Variations on panzer III hull 8)



I love panzer III hull :-*
« Last Edit: July 19, 2023, 03:11:22 PM by ysi_maniac »

Offline Story

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2023, 02:08:38 AM »
Add a pair of those early wire-guided ATGMs or some 10.5cm recoilless rifles to the sides of the 222 turret in the first illustration and you'd have a butt-kicker.

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2023, 02:04:21 AM »
Random idea:  Nashorn fitted with 12.8 cm Pak 44 gun
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Offline Mig Eater

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2023, 03:41:17 AM »
Or a Waffenträger Panzer IV but with an enclosed fighting compartment..?

« Last Edit: August 29, 2023, 03:43:47 AM by Mig Eater »

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2023, 01:21:53 AM »
I had thought of that but was thinking more along the lines of a rough "field" mod
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Offline raafif

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2023, 11:32:53 AM »
this Pz 4 with an 88 stacked on top supposedly did see action in the closing days of WW2.

The Heushrek-II was a prototype Pz-4 chassis with a big de-mountable cannon.  I was at the Land Warfare Centre at Duxford UK but seems to have been moved.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2023, 11:36:59 AM by raafif »

Offline Mig Eater

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2023, 03:57:00 PM »
Dragon have released a kit of the Panzer IV 8.8cm Flak but it has a completely wrong hull layout. In reality the whole top of the driver/fighting compartment was removed & the gun was placed inside the hull.



Correct scratch built example below.


« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 01:05:33 PM by Mig Eater »

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2023, 02:09:42 AM »


CFBV
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2023, 10:59:11 PM »
Such a romantic place to take her on your first date! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Story

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2023, 11:24:15 PM »
General Harold Alexander, the C-in-C of the Middle East Command, inspecting a platoon of tankmen of the Carpathian Lancers Regiment who are under a course of gunnery at the Middle East School of Artillery at Elmaza, near Cairo, 12 September 1942. The platoon was commanded by Second Lieutenant Z.


From the gun tube, drive sprockets and roadwheel those look like H Models.


I'm not really up on my Panzer esoterica


AB41 and Panzer III markings
https://spruebrothers.com/ech356046-1-35-echelon-polish-carpathian-lancer-panzer-iii-ausf-j-ab41/
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 01:01:30 AM by Story »

Offline apophenia

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2023, 01:26:15 AM »
General Harold Alexander, the C-in-C of the Middle East Command, inspecting a platoon of tankmen of the Carpathian Lancers Regiment who are under a course of gunnery at the Middle East School of Artillery at Elmaza, near Cairo, 12 September 1942. The platoon was commanded by Second Lieutenant Z.

As modelled: https://modelersalliance.org/threads/pu%C5%82k-u%C5%82an%C3%B3w-karpackich-pzkpfw-iii-ausf-j.153500/
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Offline Story

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2023, 01:38:10 AM »

As modelled: https://modelersalliance.org/threads/pu%C5%82k-u%C5%82an%C3%B3w-karpackich-pzkpfw-iii-ausf-j.153500/

wow, nicely obscure find from the wayback machine!  So J not H??? or was that just the Modeler's choice?

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2023, 01:41:12 AM »
wow, nicely obscure find from the wayback machine!  So J not H??? or was that just the Modeler's choice?

I suspect the latter. AFAIK, the difference between Ausf H and early 'J had something to do with add-on armour. Doubtless someone here knows the details.
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Offline Story

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2023, 02:48:22 AM »
I could see a Panzer Mk III Carpathian Lancer Troop (that's a Commonwealth 3 tank platoon, right?) being dispatched to support a LRDG deep-behind-enemy lines raid, a la' that TOBRUK movie.

It's no more ridiculous that some of the operational plans that were approved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eDAFU_SoNc
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 02:50:48 AM by Story »

Offline apophenia

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2023, 05:01:07 AM »
I could see a Panzer Mk III Carpathian Lancer Troop (that's a Commonwealth 3 tank platoon, right?) being dispatched to support a LRDG deep-behind-enemy lines raid, a la' that TOBRUK movie...

Yes on the Commonwealth troop size. As you say, each troop had 3 tanks. Five troops made a tank/armoured  squadron. As a recce unit, the Carpathian Lancers would have been part of 'E' Squadron. As such, your LRDG concept makes perfect sense. (Such open vehicles would probably have also eased their transitions from horses to armour.)

At the same time as the Panzer IIIs, the Carpathian Lancers also took on captured Italian Autoblinda AB.41 armoured cars. Later on, they would take on the M3 Scout Car (seen in the background of the Chevrolet WB 30cwt photo). In Italy - as the mixed Uhlan/Lancer recce unit of 2nd Warsaw Armoured Division - they took on Staghounds.
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Offline Story

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2023, 01:10:41 AM »

At the same time as the Panzer IIIs, the Carpathian Lancers also took on captured Italian Autoblinda AB.41 armoured cars. Later on, they would take on the M3 Scout Car (seen in the background of the Chevrolet WB 30cwt photo)


Yup. That's why I was aware of the Carpathian Lancers - came across an original mimeograph copy of the UK tech evaluation report of the AB41 down at APG back in the 1990s. http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=10838.msg211704#msg211704


Also, markings!
https://spruebrothers.com/ech356046-1-35-echelon-polish-carpathian-lancer-panzer-iii-ausf-j-ab41/



So that source says G model, based on the hole in the roadwheel and the smoother shock absorber I suppose.



If I was scripting a wargame, I'd launch from behind 20 AUS BDE to disrupt the Logistics hub at Sidi ab El Rahman.


« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 01:25:09 AM by Story »

Offline raafif

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2023, 07:02:17 AM »
a Syrian Hummel - who else could'a used these - Africa ?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2023, 04:28:54 PM »
Africa's a big place with lots of countries, which one/s did you have in mind? ???
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Offline Story

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2023, 11:32:50 PM »
a Syrian Hummel - who else could'a used these - Africa ?

Foreign use of the Hummel was extremely limited. During WWII the Soviet Union deployed captured vehicles. Post-war only two nations are known to have acquired the gun, Romania (a single chassis with an inoperable weapon) and Syria (five, captured guns received from France).

Romania received one unit from the Red Army after the war ended. This was assigned to the 2nd Armoured Regiment with its military registration number as U069009. It was officially known as the Hummel TAs self-propelled gun in the army's inventory. The gun could not be used because it was missing the breech's lock.[3] It was showcased to the public in a military parade in Bucharest of 10 May 1946 with Romanian markings. All German armour in Romania was later phased out in 1950 and finally scrapped by 1954, the army deciding on the sole use of Soviet tanks and armoured fighting vehicles (AFVs) instead.

Syria received five Hummel from France between the late 1940s and the early 1950s. Only a limited supply of main gun ammunition was provided (supplemented some time later by the Soviet Union, which had produced a sizeable quantity of compatible 150mm rounds domestically). These saw service against Israel up until the 1960s and all were most likely scrapped shortly afterwards.


Are we playing by Historical Constraints? If so except for Portugal, there were no African countries that operated the 15 cm sFH 18 and most of Africa was still within the Western European sphere immediately post-WW2. Missing the breach block, only folks who already operated the 15 cm sFH 18 guns would find this of trade interest.

The Soviets could have sent a couple of their Hummels to North Korea along with their 15cm guns and the only reason we don't know about that could be that the flatbed rail cars they were on were obliterated by a B-29 raid.

Romania dumped their German ordnance by 1954. Guatemala was buying up Czech ordnance depot sweepings right up until 1954, when the CIA put the kybosh on all of that. The Romanians could have had their Hummel already loaded on a freighter and then diverted it. But to who?

https://countrystudies.us/romania/56.htm

Finland was a post-war user of the Mk IV Panzer, so that's a no-brainer. Finland trades whatever they had for export then - reindeer meat, pine products, ad nauseum. Finland also had 48 of the same guns as mounted on the Hummel. Might even have a camo pattern like this -


So would Bulgaria, as a long range fires bunker on the Turkish border set behind their screen of dug-in Mk IVs. The Bulgarians used those 15cm guns.

After 1945, Bulgaria incorporated its surviving Panzer IVs into defensive bunkers as strongpoints along its border with Turkey, along with Soviet T-34 turrets. This defensive line, known as the "Krali Marko Line", remained in use until the fall of communism in 1989



A Bulgarian Bunker Hummel could leave you with a spare MkIV chassis to play with as 'something else'.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2023, 12:21:15 AM by Story »

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2023, 01:52:02 AM »
Apart from a broader scenario whereby Germany is more successful/fights longer and thus either exports weapons or has more allies in Africa, perhaps the best scenarios I could see would be perhaps before the surrender/collapse in Tunisia, Germany ranges to get some Hummels to Nth Africa which are then captured and conceivable eventually end up in local use - say with Tunisia, Morocco or even Libya?

Or perhaps more are sent to the likes of Syria which then potentially offloads them further to others.  The problem with this or the earlier scenario would presumably be access to spares/ammunition at some point...I would think.

I suppose an even more radical solution might be if Germany somehow retained/reclaimed its African colonies (see below) and thus had Wehrmacht and/or allied forces there which thus used such equipment.  That raises potentially even more interesting scenarios and opportunities.

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2023, 03:01:44 AM »
Or double-down on the whole "March to Baghdad, 1944" theme
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=782.msg186340#msg186340

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2024, 03:06:29 AM »
Captured Mk IIIs






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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2024, 03:10:34 AM »
I like the idea of one or more of these being captured and sent to Australia to provide a different basis for a local tank production.
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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2024, 07:10:01 PM »
Aberdeen Ordnance Museum use to have scads of period publications on how-to-operate captured Nazi weapons (this actually came into play when US units in the Italian mountains were difficult to resupply and it was easier to just turn MG34s and the like against their former owners).

I forget where I picked up on the breadcrumbs, but someone related playing on Panzer Mk IIIs at an East Coast steelmill not far from a port city. This goes towards your notion of Australian-copied Mk IIIs and whether it'd been more economically feasible to set up rebuild facilities in Europe rather than starting from the ground up. Fodder for a couple of WIFF builds, fo' sho'.

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« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 05:46:05 AM by Story »

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Re: Panzerkampfwagen III & IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2024, 10:57:13 AM »
 :smiley:
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