Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on December 28, 2011, 03:51:33 AM
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Hi folks,
A thread for any McDonnell F3H Demon Ideas and Inspiration. Here's a few to start:
Recon Demon:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/ReconDemon.jpg)
Trainer Demon:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/twoseatDemon.jpg)
Regards,
Greg
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Another thought:
What if the troublesome Westinghouse J40 turbojet was replaced by something more successful such as a RR Avon or Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire (Wright J65)? Maybe as a RAF or RAAF variant?
What about other users:
RAF
RAAF
RCAF
RN FAA
RAN FAA
other?
Regards,
Greg
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And let's not forget the Super Demon:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/SuperDemon.jpg)
These had the following:
F3H-G: Two J-65s
F3H-H: Two J-79s
These were also only a hop, skip and a jump to the F-4 Phantom...
regards,
Greg
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Just a cool (and hopefully inspiring) picture I came across and thought worth posting here:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/ParkedDemons.jpg)
regards,
Greg
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I did a few F3H's back in the day. There was actually a recce Demon proposed by McDonnell.
Regards,
John
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A couple of quick knockups:
Recon Demon:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/ReconDemon.jpg)
Trainer Demon:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/twoseatDemon.jpg)
Regards,
Greg
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Let's not forget the Super Demon:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/SuperDemon.jpg)
These had the following:
F3H-G: Two J-65s
F3H-H: Two J-79s
These were also only a hop, skip and a jump to the F-4 Phantom...
regards,
Greg
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Just a picture I came across and thought cool:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/ParkedDemons.jpg)
regards,
Greg
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When the Phantom was rereleased again stateside, I bought 4 of them for conversion into a F3H-G/Phantom hybrid.
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I always though that what the F-3 needed was an F-8 style chin intake instead of those "slot" ones:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/hws5mp/The%20Whiffery/profiles/Demonmod2finj.jpg)
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I do have a F3H-3 "Arch-Demon" porject in mind, blending the Demon wing with a F-101B fuselage and intakes with the horizontal tail dropped back down to where it was on the original F-101 mock-up and whwere it is on the Demon.
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McDonnell did propose a recce variant of the Demon. The nose would have been much the same length as the standard radar one. According to Naval Fighters, the F3H-2P was planned but ultimately cancelled.
Regards,
John
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I always though that what the F-3 needed was an F-8 style chin intake instead of those "slot" ones:
([url]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/hws5mp/The%20Whiffery/profiles/Demonmod2finj.jpg[/url])
DO IT! DO IT NAAAOOOUUUWWW! >:D
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(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o627/AGRA105/f3h-2p.png)
F3H-2P
Just a picture I came across and thought cool:
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/ParkedDemons.jpg[/url])
They are some of the F3H-1Ns built by McDonnell that never received an engine and were barged down the Missisip for use as ground trainers. There were some 48-50 F3H-1Ns thrown away by the USN because their Westinghose J40 didn’t work. If you could re-engine them with an engine that could fit you could have an instant all weather interceptor air force in 1956. The Armstrong Siddely ASSa.7 would fit inside the J40-WE-22 mould line and provide a lot more thrust (especially without reheat) and a little bit less weight. They are too heavy to fly from light fleet carriers so who would want them? Gap fill for Sea Vixen? Maybe with these aircraft the RN’s FAA could have bounced the Egyptian Air Force when they fled over the Sinai to Saudi Arabia during the Suez War.
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I always though that what the F-3 needed was an F-8 style chin intake instead of those "slot" ones:
([url]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/hws5mp/The%20Whiffery/profiles/Demonmod2finj.jpg[/url])
Best thing about the Demon was the view from the cocpit. Chin intake would kill that.
(http://www.fspilotshop.com/images/Demon_vc2.jpg)
Plus there is something about that styled intake into the windscreen that just looks so tail-fin 50s cool.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3193/4561359775_e2b75ec404_z.jpg)
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I did half-a-dozen or so profiles of the type over the years including these two:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/Maverick65au/Post%20War%20Australasia/F3H02.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s101/Maverick65au/Post%20War%20Australasia/F3H03.jpg)
Regards,
John
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Best thing about the Demon was the view from the cocpit. Chin intake would kill that.
How would a chin intake spoil that? It'd be underneath.... ???
Plus there is something about that styled intake into the windscreen that just looks so tail-fin 50s cool.
Matter of taste I suppose - I always think it looks like they stuck the front end of a smaller plane on by mistake then tried to cover the join with that awkward belly fairing... ;)
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The recce Demon is interesting, but I don't see why you'd need a lengthened nose to get all those cameras in.
Modify the basic radome shape to take a forward looking camera and then use the empty cannon bay for the side and downward facing cameras.
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Big camera maybe...
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Big lens?
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Maybe, but then it is increasing the aircraft's "footprint" on the carrier.
How much space did a Demon take up on the deck elevator? Would a lengthened nose impinge on deck and elevator clearances on carriers of the day?
Or would you just give the recce version to the Marines for mostly land based work?
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Honestly, I didn't really put any thought into this one.
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I'll check the elevator dimensions later but I don't think it would be too much of an issue if they used a deck edge lift. Demons were only 59' long. I'll get the numbers and let you know this week.
Edit:
OK, gentlemen here we go!
F3H-2 Dimensions:
Length: 59"
Wingspan: 35' 4" (unfolded) ~24' (folded)
Height: 14' 7"
All CVs hangar deck clearance heights were at least 17' 6" or higher so no problem there!
USN CV Elevators:
CV-9 Class (1945): 48' 3" x 44' 3" and 60' x 34'
CV-41 Class (1945): 54' 1" x 46' 1" and 56' x 34'
CV-59 Class (1960's): 63'x 52'
CV-63 Class (1967): 70'/85' x 52'
CVN-65, CV-66, CV-67 (1960's): 85' x 52'
CVN-68 Class (1970's): 70'/85' x 52'
Note: 70'/85' x 52' are the newer shaped elevators where the inboard and outboard edges are different lengths, reflected by the first two numbers respectively.
So from that we can see that from CV-59 on, the F3H would have no problem at all if its nose were extended about 6' for a photo version. I don't think they ever operated off of the smaller carriers anyway but even so, it looks like CV-41 Class is the only viable choice. I know the CV-9 class received larger elevators when they were rebuilt but I don't have any data on their sizes right now.
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Maybe some more inspiration for those RN FAA Demons:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/arkroyal1954.jpg)
Taken aboard HMS Ark Royal 1954
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Quick one:
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/WhIf/XF-3H-4Demon.png)
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Two seats, Spey engine, Phoenix missiles. :icon_surprised:
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Moritz! That is probably the best looking Demon I have yet to see. Now we need a profile to show how it all fits together :)
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Make it an A3H and modernize it to 1980s standards, then put it in Gulf-1.
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J-79 engine. Convert that corpulent keel to a recce bay. Fuel and ECM pods on the pylons for a F3H-2P
Or
J-79 engine. Convert that corpulent keel to an electric emissions sensing bay. F3H-2Q
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For an RN FAA version why not go for Olympus?
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Would a FAA F3H variant have been a better fit for the Centaur class CVL than the F-4K?
(The Phantom was deemed operable but too big to give the CVL a sufficiently-sized airwing.)
Olympus-powered FAA F3H with two Skyflashes and two Red Tops...... um......
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Whether it would have been practical or not, it's a darn good idea! :)
Somewhere I have an Emhar Demon too..........
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Would a British evolution of the Demon have kept the type in production long enough to be an option to the French when the latter were shopping for a carrier fighter?
In that case, how would the re-engined Demon's potential as a fighter be compared to that of the Crusader?