Author Topic: 3D Printers  (Read 14508 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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3D Printers
« on: December 21, 2011, 04:43:26 PM »
Hi folks,

Has anyone looked into desktop 3D printers as an adjunct to modeling?  I am interested in them and would keen to hear others thoughts.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 04:49:43 PM »
I've used a 3D printing service and have seen others' similar projects, and I have to say: with the right choice of material and a good quality 3D drawing, it can be a very useful thing! I've contemplated using it to make conversion parts for an AltCan CF-108 and for other projects, even for complete "kits"... just a matter of drawing the 3D to be printed.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 12:33:05 AM »
If you want to do 3D printing as a hobby in itself,  then sure - there are very low end machines that you can make or buy for around $1K, but the parts are not model ready. For about $2K you can make a better UV curing poly machine.

 If what you want is to design a part in a 3D program and produce a model part without worrying about the minutiae of the steps in between, then 3D printing is absolutely not something you want to do at home. It's expensive, time consuming and requires a fair amount of tweaking and experience to get a good result.
If you want a model part, the cheapest fastest and least frustrating method is to send it off to a printing bureau like Shapeways. Their high end Frosted Detail and Frosted Ultra Detail is the way to go. The printed parts will still have some steps in them, but in most cases they'll be nearly invisible under a coat of paint or easily dealt with with some light sanding and polishing.
Their detail material also works, but the results will require a fair amount of sanding to remove the printing steps.

The 1/350 Bonestell Moonrocket I posted over on the Whatif forum was made using their clear detail material.
This 1/350 scale UFO from the "Invaders" TV series was also done in their clear detail material; you can clearly see the steps. Some of the fine details are obscured by the printing artifacts. The saucer is about 65mm in dia.:



I haven't printed this in the Frosted detail yet, but it'll probably be ready to go out of the printer.
In the US, another company that does small printing orders for modelers is PCS Engineering. They have a printer with an even higher resolution than the best Shapeways has to offer. Their parts are ready to go right off the printer. When I made the clear engines for the Leif Ericson, I printed out a copy at PCS for Round 2 to use in their display model.
This is the original kit's engine above my copy, which is in the new re-issue:


Obviously this is styrene, but the PCS parts were almost as smooth as this.

frank
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 12:35:39 AM by Frank3k »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 09:50:33 AM »
This is the type of system I have been looking at:  http://www.bitsfrombytes.com/

Add in a 3D scanner and you have some interesting possibilities...
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 10:15:53 AM »
Greg, Those printers are not going to get adequate for model work, unless you're making very simple parts for very large scale models. The resolution is just too low.
Even the lowest resolution printers at Shapeways are far better than the RepRap or equivalent hobbyist printers.

To get reasonable model parts, you'd need something like a Projet or Objet printer. The UFO above was printed on an Objet printer at high speed (lower resolution) at the lower speed/higher resolution, the steps were still there, just not as bad.

We're talking $15000 printers. Plus the material (expensive).

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2011, 07:51:57 AM »
Thanks Frank.  I typically play in 1/48 or 1/35 so I wonder how those would go?   I also wonder how one would go printing a part, then giving it a primer coat or similar to smooth everything out and then scribe in any finer details?
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2011, 10:18:42 AM »
Thanks Frank.  I typically play in 1/48 or 1/35 so I wonder how those would go?


Nothing at the "home" level would look good for anything under 1:1.... and maybe not even then!

Right now, Shapeways is the best way to go if you want to experiment. They ship worldwide and they're pretty inexpensive (in part because they're backed by Philips) They have a materials samples kit which covers their more common materials. It's $30US but includes a $25 discount coupon.
Based on the samples listed, the Frosted Ultra Detail, White Detail and Black Detail are the only ones worth considering for models. The White Strong and Flexible is a possibility, but it's composed of sintered nylon particles, so no amount of sanding will remove the grain. For this material, you have to coat it in primer (often many applications, since it'll soak up the primer) then sand away.

Quote from: GTX_Admin
I also wonder how one would go printing a part, then giving it a primer coat or similar to smooth everything out and then scribe in any finer details?


1 - in a 3D program, make the part, then export the part in a file format that Shaepways will recognize. STL is the standard.
2- use a program like the free version of Netfabb to check your STL file and make sure that your object is water-tight and printable.
3 - Look at the Shapeways materials web page and make sure that you've met or exceeded their minimum design requirements for wall thickness and details. Their design limits are usually well above the limits of the machines; this is done to decrease the printing time (fewer parts that need to be re-printed) and lowering the cost.
4 - upload the part and have them print it in the material of your choice. With luck, it'll pass their checks and after a week or two, you'll get your part.

From experience, the loop between steps 3 & 4 will take up most of your design time. They will reject parts for even tiny deviations from their design rules.

Typically, the white detail can reproduce details down to 0.2mm, so you can include quite a bit of detail. The only problem is that the printing artifacts will require a fair amount of PSR and that'll wipe out some of the finer details.

 Just for that, the Frosted Ultra detail parts are the way to go. Not only are details down to 0.1mm, depending on the part, they may only require a minimum amount of sanding and a regular coat of primer will be enough to eliminate the printing artifacts.

Look at the parts samples for Frosted detail and Frosted Ultra Detail: http://www.shapeways.com/materials/frosted_detail

The tracked gear is painted, the truck is unpainted. From the looks of it, I wouldn't bother to do any sanding - it looks ready for painting. The printing artifacts here are the slightly grainy appearance and on the tires and faint lines on the sides.


The main reason why you can't make an exact prediction on the amount of work that these parts will require once you get them back is because the printing orientation is up to Shapeways (they bunch together several orders and print them all in one batch), so the artifacts may be more or less obvious, depending on how the part was printed.

Frank


Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 01:01:19 AM »
engadget.com - Solidoodle 4 keeps 3D printing under $1,000 (video)

solidoodle.com web page Out-of-the-box 3D Printing ó starting at just $499 for the Solidoodle 2 3D Printer. 

Not sure about the material used for creating the objects.  I know it is a plastic of some kind but is it compatible with the paints, adhesives and glues that we normally use for model building?  Still, a 3D printer for under $1000.00 is certainly attractive but what is the cost of the material needed to create your 3D printed objects?  The video below states that the material used is ABS plastic.  Not very familiar with that myself but perhaps others have more experience with it.  The printing material is $43.00 for a spool that weighs 2.0 pounds.  So depending on the project size, your material consumption may impact on the overall cost to create the printed object. 

solidoodle.com FaceBook page

Solidoodle 2 3D Printer
Solidoodle 2 3D Printer
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 01:24:41 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline jcf

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2013, 02:31:38 AM »
It's another melted plastic wire build-up machine with moderate resolution,
okay for tchotchkes but you'd need to sand it for plamo purposes, unless
you work the texture into the design.

ABS is the material used in the majority of Plastruct architectural shapes,
it uses strong solvent glues and can be painted. However it's working
properties are quite a bit different from the HIPS (high impact polystyrene)
beloved of plamo folks.

ABS is more rubbery than polystyrene, don't let the styrene in the name fool
ya, styrene monomer is the predecessor of a number of compound, not just
HIPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene

Frankly I still don't see 3-D printers as truly useful to the average modeller,
combine the learning curve of proper CADD modeling with the cost of the
equipment and to me it makes more sense to just practice your kit-bashing,
PSR, and simple scratch-building skills. Even if you totally mess up the new
part, what are you out? Maybe a couple of bucks in material and the time you
spent, but, it's your hobby is it not? So the time wasn't wasted and the failure
at least taught you what not to do, so when you start over you are better informed.



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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2013, 02:35:52 AM »
Right at the moment my focus is upon such printers that can print Inconel, Titanium, Aluminium etc... ;)
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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2013, 02:39:07 AM »
Frankly I still don't see 3-D printers as truly useful to the average modeller,
combine the learning curve of proper CADD modeling with the cost of the
equipment and to me it makes more sense to just practice your kit-bashing,
PSR, and simple scratch-building skills.

I agree that is the case at this stage.  I do envisage a point in the future though where things may be different.  Either through better software, the ability to purchase & download 'patterns' from model companies or perhaps a growing industry of 'pattern' designers who simply sell the downloadable file for others to use in their printers.  Of course, printers will also need to be improved although that is happening.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2013, 03:44:28 AM »
Greg -  Shapeways can print metals (steel, silver, brass, bronze) but I doubt the prints have the accuracy or durability required to last in a rocket engine or a jet.

Home 3D printing with the surface resolution the typical hobbyist imagines (or would accept) is many years or a decade  or more away. If you're also a 3D printer hobbyist, you can make one now for a few thousand $... but the time and money overhead of operating a 3D printer would be a real drag.

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2013, 03:51:23 AM »
My requirements are not something Shapeways can help with.  I am talking about producing real aircraft/gas turbine components... ;)
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2013, 06:13:36 AM »
My requirements are not something Shapeways can help with.  I am talking about producing real aircraft/gas turbine components... ;)
when you've sorted that you could have a conversation with a certain submarine builder / maintainer about hull penetrations

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 03:50:20 AM »
My requirements are not something Shapeways can help with.  I am talking about producing real aircraft/gas turbine components... ;)
Worked as a dedsign engineer for Pratt & WHitney Canada for 15 years and have also bought many, many components made from most of the metals available to 3D rapid prototyper.

Unless you are talking, possibly, some of the cold end cases, the strength and fracture toughness simply isn't there for any of these materials for real life uses. Even hobby gas turbines for a model jet. At the small scale of the hobby turbines, the truely horrible surface finish of the parts will significantly reduce performance. And a single discontinuity in a stressed part will result in failure much earlier than any homogeneous part.

If you are looking to make something like a gearbox or front frame or inlet case, then, maybe  (maybe) you can get away with it acknowledging the hit you'll take due to surface finish and inaccuracies. If you use the parts as preforms for final machining or plating operations to improve properties, accuracy or finishes, that can save a lot of money, but it will cost a LOT of money. Not what I'd think of as hobby levels of funding.

And don't even think of these materials for any of the rotating components. Simply not on. The blades will fail massively due to fatique and/or impact fracture if the engine ingests a bit of sand.

The technology is just not at this level yet.

Paul

Offline nils

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 04:42:00 PM »
3D printing is one thing i have concidered quite a few times.
but current printers are quite expensive (between 900 and 1500 Euro's for the pre-assembled ones).
but the concept of 3D printing is fairly new, and there are still some problems with resolution, not to mention that the printing process is still very slow (up to 3 to 6 hours, depending on the size of the part).

3D  printing could be usefull for pringing out parts that are to complex to scratchbuild.
for exsample the nose and tailsections of a Nimrod AEW.3, or engine cowlings for a C-130.

looking at the toner/ASB fibre used, it is in some cases cheaper then moulding resin.

i read earlier this week that HP is developing a household 3D printer that would be more affordable and practical.
however, you still need to learn how to use 3D CAD/CAM design software.

all i can say and do, is wait and see what comes up  8)
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on the drawing board:
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-1/72 Eurocopter Tiger (Belgian Army)
-various other 1/72 and 1/144 aircraft

Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2014, 11:13:14 AM »
A very interesting comparison of some of the printers currently available
http://www.gizmag.com/2013-3d-printer-comparison-guide/30187/


All I can say is I am glad I am alive in this day and age

http://www.gizmag.com/spike-laser-measurement-smartphone/30218/

Being able to transfer this data to 3D modelling software automatically hence scaling and printing....... ;D
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 11:15:28 AM by Volkodav »

Offline Weaver

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2014, 04:02:26 AM »


 ;D
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Offline Morgeorge

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2014, 05:31:36 PM »
I bought my Felix printer last year; and I choose it over Makerbot because it has a bigger print bed size which is 255x205x235mm. For some odd reason, I prefer large scale print bed and high resistance filament like 3D2printís nylon filament than plastic PLA to create prototypes. Donít have yet a 3D printer? Then I guess you can ask for 3D printer services like Thingverse and Shapeways to do your favour.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2014, 06:56:03 PM »
I bought my Felix printer last year; and I choose it over Makerbot because it has a bigger print bed size which is 255x205x235mm. For some odd reason, I prefer large scale print bed and high resistance filament like 3D2printís nylon filament than plastic PLA to create prototypes.
Hi George,

Does the nylon media have a rough finish?  Can you sand it to smooth out the surface of the printed object if it does have a rough finish?
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2014, 07:12:06 AM »
An interesting review of some click2detail products and the potential for 3D printing and our hobby:

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2014, 07:05:54 PM »
Very interesting model but boy does that bloke like the sound of his own voice.

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2014, 02:47:46 AM »
Didn't worry me.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2014, 03:55:24 AM »
Very interesting model but boy does that bloke like the sound of his own voice.

I thought the same thing.

It looks like Click2Detail is using an Polyjet printer (same as Shapeways at their highest quality) although they seem to be running them closer to the design limits. Getting a smooth surface from a Polyjet is easy - as long as the areas with printing artifacts are accessible. I was cringing at the way he was handling that model. The resin used by the Polyjet printers (and most high res printers) feels very solid but it will break very easily.

If you want ultra smooth surfaces or very fine details you need a Viper, InVision or Perfactory printer... but now you're talking prices that are higher than even Click2Details inflated prices.

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2014, 04:16:24 AM »
folks,

Whilst not related to models per sae, the following two stories give you an insight of how this technology is moving in the real world:

GE makes additive manufacturing announcement at Farnborough airshow

Optomec Awarded $4M Project From America Makes To Implement Metal 3D Printing For U.S. Air Force Repair Applications
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2014, 04:36:00 AM »
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2014, 05:21:24 AM »
I think I'm getting confused as to how these things work.  I thought they were like a computer run milling machine, but this seems to be something a bit different. 

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2014, 07:15:13 AM »
I think I'm getting confused as to how these things work.  I thought they were like a computer run milling machine, but this seems to be something a bit different.

They're completely different. A 3D milling machine removes material, while 3D printers add.

There are 3D printers that can print directly in metal or other non-plastic materials, but let's focus on the printers within hobbyist reach:

Most of the cheap low end printers (like the Dremel, above) are extrusion printers (FDM - fused deposition modeling) and typically use a thermoplastic material (like ABS) heated in a nozzle. The printer deposits layers of molten plastic to build up the model. The results will usually have noticeable steps that will require effort to remove or conceal.

Selective Laser Sintering (SLS) fires a laser into an easily melted powder, like nylon. The small particles stick together, layer by layer, until the model is completed. The results have a grainy finish. You cannot sand the model to eliminate the graininess, because it's grainy all the way through. The particles are just stuck together. You can soak it in paint or primer and sand that.

Color printing can be done with a plaster-like powder and special inkjet heads (Powder bed Printing). The result is grainy (like plaster) and fragile, but you can get a nice color representation.

Stereolithography fires a laser (usually UV, but not always) into a vat of photosensitive resin. The model is built up layer by layer. Stereolithography has the advantage of extremely high resolution and many models will require little if any post processing.


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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2014, 02:50:35 AM »
Nice summary Frank. :)

Give it a few more years and I am sure you will see the price of these come down and the resolution etc go up.

As for the industrial level, there is a lot happening, especially with metals such as titanium.  Some of the techniques are SLS.  Others use electron beams and wire fed.  Platforms such as the 787 and F-35 will have these parts.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2014, 12:22:43 PM »
Nice summary Frank. :)

Give it a few more years and I am sure you will see the price of these come down and the resolution etc go up.

As for the industrial level, there is a lot happening, especially with metals such as titanium.  Some of the techniques are SLS.  Others use electron beams and wire fed.  Platforms such as the 787 and F-35 will have these parts.

Yes its very exciting, I particularly like the suggestion that large industrial 3D printers could be embarked on board the USNs carriers which could then manufacture parts, consumables, even ordinance and complete UCAVs as required.  The materials needed by the printers would take up less volume than the actual spares etc. currently carried.

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2014, 12:40:17 PM »
There is certainly a lot of talk of that - see here for example.
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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2014, 01:25:44 AM »
One additional benefit of 3D printing is that you no longer need to create a different scale master for each item offered for sale.  A very good example of this was experienced this morning when I discovered a set of six Para-Pack racks for the C-47/Dakota that were only available in 1:72nd scale at Shapeways.  A quick note to the creator asking if they could be made available in 1:48th scale resulted in that actually happening within an hour of posting my query. 

Link to 1:72nd scale Parapacks (set of six) @Shapeways.com

Link to 1:48th scale Parapacks (set of six) @Shapeways.com

So for anyone that has a 1:48th scale Monogram C-47 kit (or the Trumpeter kit) that wishes to add a nice detail feature to the underside of the fuselage this is your chance to do so at a reasonable price. 


***Update:  I just ordered two sets of the 48th scale Para-Pack Racks in frosted ultra-high detail plastic @$30.00/ea.  Hoping to see them on my front door step before the end of the year :)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 01:52:53 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2014, 02:25:18 AM »
One additional benefit of 3D printing is that you no longer need to create a different scale master for each item offered for sale. 

In general, yes. If the original design has been made to minimize volume (and cost) rescaling may result in wall thickness (or details) that are either too thin to print or they will be printable but will deform or break with handling. The designer has to check the new design to make sure it's printable and buildable.

Offline Silver Fox

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2014, 10:01:47 AM »
Just found out that my local public library has a 3D Printer available to the general public... assuming you are a library member.

I'm going to have to scope out some of the parts I want and then see if I can get hooked up to print them out.

$1.00 setup and $0.05 per minute... nice. :)

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2015, 05:57:11 AM »
As expected, these are becoming more and more prevalent (which will hopefully see great increases in usability, resolution as well as price reductions).  Here are just a couple shown at the recent 2015 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas:


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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2015, 03:59:04 AM »
A very well done article today at Cracked.com about using 3D printers to help people: 5 Ways to Help the Most People Possible With One 3D Printer


(Image source: Tim Freccia / Not Impossible - Project Daniel)

Image source link provides more information on Not Impossible - Project Daniel if you are interested in learning more about this project.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2015, 11:48:44 PM »
Literally just placed my first order at Shapways and I seriously want to buy my own 3D printer but I don't have a clue where to start or how to workout what to get.

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2015, 03:06:02 AM »
Just found out that my local public library has a 3D Printer available to the general public... assuming you are a library member.
That is absolutely brilliant.

For fun I went to a local retailer's website to check if their printer price had come down at all. No, but they now have four or five variations, "filament" cartridges in different colours for each brand, and scanners!! 3D scanners! The first one I saw was a handheld, the second a desktop turntable setup. Truly, the possibilities for modelling are endless! Got a rare kit? Scan it before you build it so you can print more! Perfect for my Aurora Cheyenne.

So. Damned. Cool. Of course I can't afford it but, like I assured Sam, I will wait until affordable models are affordable to me.
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Offline arkon

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2015, 11:01:31 AM »
I know most if not all of these printers only print in one material at a time but I'm just wondering if they can print with two different materials, say one plastic and one that conducts electricity, so that you could print your model pre-wired for lights n motors or such.
Just a thought.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2015, 11:21:18 AM »
I know most if not all of these printers only print in one material at a time but I'm just wondering if they can print with two different materials, say one plastic and one that conducts electricity, so that you could print your model pre-wired for lights n motors or such.
Just a thought.


They're working on that, but I don't think there are any commercial products.

For modeling purposes, filament printers are going to leave steps that have to be sanded off or buried under thick paint.
Lazy people like me would rather have a resin printer. Just some minor cleanup and you're good to go.
Resin printers are still in the $2K and up range. There are a couple of Kickstaters for small "hobbyist" resin printers.

Here's a "cheap" one for $3300: http://formlabs.com/products/form-1-plus/

If you don't mind a tiny print area, here's one for $300: http://www.iboxprinters.com/


Offline arkon

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2015, 11:33:12 AM »
I'm not looking to buy one , was just wondering. I saw a picture of a car from this years Sema show where they had a car that was said to be completely 3d printed by a company called Local Motors I believe and was just wonder if that included circuits , so no more wire harness for the car which lead me to think in model applications.
Did not read the whole article on the printed car so I may be jumping to conclusions
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Offline Goonie

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2015, 03:34:24 AM »
My friend send me link to this interesting video: "What if 3D printing was 100x faster?"

http://www.ted.com/talks/joe_desimone_what_if_3d_printing_was_25x_faster#t-626886
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2015, 12:01:06 PM »
There's a weekly magazine with bits to build your own 3d printer out now.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2015, 03:38:27 AM »
There's a weekly magazine with bits to build your own 3d printer out now.

That would be this one
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2015, 07:17:18 AM »
A filament printer like that would be about as useful for modeling as tits on a fish.

Here's a "$60" resin printer that can produce excellent prints with minimal post-processing: http://hackaday.com/2015/06/10/astoundingly-great-60-3d-printer-called-chimera-bests-your-printer/

Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2015, 01:47:32 PM »
There's a weekly magazine with bits to build your own 3d printer out now.

That would be this one

That's the one

Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2015, 07:22:33 PM »
I pulled out the items I received Shapeways (in two separate deliveries) and noticed most of them are now covered in a waxy white powder that appears to have excreted from the parts themselves.  I have scraped it away from some of them and they appear ok underneath and items already painted seam unaffected but I am a little concerned of what will happen if this does form under the paint, i.e. will it flake off.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?  I intend to chase it up through Shapeways as well but thought I'd ask here first.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2015, 11:37:32 PM »
The Shapeways parts always have some support material left over. It's only on the surface. It can be removed with a quick wipe of alcohol or rinsing and brushing in water.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2015, 11:42:35 PM »
Ok I don't think this is it as it wasn't present when I received the items and only appeared about a month later, almost like a white mould or similar.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2015, 12:04:26 AM »
Ok I don't think this is it as it wasn't present when I received the items and only appeared about a month later, almost like a white mould or similar.

The natural color of the material can be white, in part due to the printing process (it will have a yellowish tint if you polish a part until it's transparent) The white sections are probably areas where the oil has been completely removed or evaporated. Don't worry about it. If the surface doesn't feel oily after cleaning, it's good to go. I always prime the material (Mr. Surfacer works great) and never had an issue.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2015, 12:39:31 AM »
What I am referring to is a thick as in a couple of millimetres thick waxy feeling powdery build up over the parts, like an oxide coating, or like I said earlier a mould, i.e. the furry white mould that grows on food.  Smaller parts are virtually unrecognisable under this coating.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2015, 01:45:26 AM »
What I am referring to is a thick as in a couple of millimetres thick waxy feeling powdery build up over the parts, like an oxide coating, or like I said earlier a mould, i.e. the furry white mould that grows on food.  Smaller parts are virtually unrecognisable under this coating.

It may be residue support wax mixed with oil. It should go away after cleaning. There's nothing to leech out of the material, since it isn't a two part resin so residue is either wax, oil or a combination of the two.

If the part doesn't have delicate structures, you can try an old toothbrush to remove the excess, either in lukewarm water with a little soap or with a few drops of IPA.

Offline LemonJello

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2015, 02:28:09 AM »
We (my workplace) recently took delivery of a MakerBot Z18 and it's associated Digitizer...guess who's got the manuals in his office right now?  This coming week I plan to get it all set up and calibrated, then run a couple of "test" prints, all in the name of science, of course.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2015, 11:49:16 AM »
I had a 3D printer in my place of work for rapid prototyping back in 2003, manager was a tool though so none of us got to do any foreignies on it.  At least I had my own work shop purely for fabricating test jigs and widgets etc.  ;)

Offline LemonJello

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2015, 07:40:13 AM »
I've been playing with our new MakerBot, trying out the different settings and seeing what can/can't be printed.  It's been a definite learning experience, and there's still a lot more to learn before I'd classify myself as more than a novice with this.

Here she is:


Here's what I've printed (other than some of the pre-loaded test files):


The near left is approx 1/48 scale, but the file had some errors so it didn't turn out quite right, the big one in back is approx 1/35 scale and something of an accident.  I had corrected the original file and must have scaled up from my desired 1/48 measurements.  Took about 9 hours to print.  The near right is the last one printed, back at 1/48 scale and there are still some areas that didn't come out right, I think a little putty, paint and sanding will give me a usable zodiac rubber boat.

I've downloaded a bunch of files from SketchUp, converted them to .stl format, then corrected for any issues before loading into the Makerbot software.  We'll see how they turn out. 

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2015, 07:58:47 AM »
Well you have to start somewhere.  At least you did not have to purchase the thing ;)

Once you get some more experience with this I am confident you will be pumping (printing) out some really nice models. 
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2015, 08:41:13 AM »
I figured the zodiac was a good "cover" project since our Maritime Archeologist is going to be one of the main users of the printer. 

Offline LemonJello

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2015, 09:24:55 AM »
OK, a few more test files run and here are the results:



These are 1/35 off road tires/wheels (I slightly scaled down HUMVEE tires to better fit on an M151 Jeep project I have in mind - the tread detail is ok, but the hub detail is non-existent.  I tried to go with Higher resolution settings, but the printer didn't like the file on those settings and aborted - so I went standard and got these - they're probably usable with some work.  Above the tires are Javelin (FGM-148) launchers - again I think they can be used, but the fine details on the controllers will need to be added as the standard settings just couldn't pull it off.  Alternatively, I can separate the tubes and use them as reloads in the back of a vehicle. 



Here we have a pair of AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missiles - the tail fins and engine intakes have some errors, but they can be fixed and I'll be giving them a reprint in the near future.  Again, standard  settings on the printer, but I may give them a try on high and see what turns up.  If it turns out better - well then I have a master to try and cast a B-1's load in resin.


Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2015, 11:58:12 AM »
The AGM-129 looks promising as do the Javelin missiles.  Looking forward to seeing these items getting fine-tuned. 
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2015, 03:50:20 AM »
Very interested in acquiring some 1/48 AGM-129s if you are interested in selling them.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2015, 06:02:12 PM »
Just got an e-mail from Staples (UK stationery supplier): they're selling plug'n'play 3D printers in their high street shops now. £1500 for the base model, £2000 for the better one. No idea how the specs compare to other printers. This is the product page:

http://www.staples.co.uk/lists/nonbrowseskusset?SkusetId=19591&cm_mmc=150715_COR_PRO_UK3_3_E15_07_015_09UK&RegID=-100000&RegID1=-100000&RegID2=0
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Offline jcf

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2015, 01:47:32 AM »
Staples (actually a US based company BTW) is also selling 3D printers through their US stores:
http://www.staples.com/3D-Printers/cat_CL211598
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Offline Weaver

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2015, 12:42:47 AM »
Staples (actually a US based company BTW) is also selling 3D printers through their US stores:
http://www.staples.com/3D-Printers/cat_CL211598


Didn't know they were a US company: cheers.
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2015, 07:47:48 AM »
Very interested in acquiring some 1/48 AGM-129s if you are interested in selling them.


When I get the file refined, I'd be happy to send you a couple.

Here's my latest production:


I've been playing with this as a possible V-44/QTR nacelle.  I think I may have gone a little too big with this, though. 

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2015, 03:18:33 AM »
Can anyone say "V-22 engine upgrade!"? ;)
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2015, 09:01:29 AM »
Another start to the work week, another couple 3D printing projects:

Pelican cases:


Barrels, pallets and stokes litters:


Pallet close up:


Litter and barrels:


I have a SAR-type rescue basket file, but the printer doesn't like it right now.  Also working through a couple of inflatable life raft containers during my lunch.

Offline LemonJello

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2015, 04:45:18 AM »
Here's a couple of quick and dirty missile containers I whipped up.  I have intentions of using one of my Trumpeter LAV-25's to make an ADATS type vehicle.




Offline Volkodav

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2015, 06:37:30 PM »
Looking really good and making buying a printer more and more tempting.  The Dremel 3d printer will apparently be available in local hardware stores soon.

Offline 3dtech

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Re: 3D Printers
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2015, 07:19:45 PM »
The Technology of printing physical 3D objects from digital data using vertical axis manufacturing process is called ďadditive manufacturing.Ē

The amount of material, the rotation of the platform and the design of the object is administered in a computer controlled environment.

This technology allows for complex shape, size and dimensions which are not easily or economically available using traditional manufacturing tooling methods.3d printing service india allows low cost production of highly specific, low volume products or mass markets quicker.
thanks.
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