Author Topic: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War  (Read 1612 times)

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 09:32:45 AM »
I love the M103. This build is going to be awesome.

The 105mm L7 is a bit of a downgrade. It'd also give a lot of extra room in the turret. Any plans on what to do with that?

Cheers,

Logan

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2018, 09:45:24 PM »
The 105mm L7 is a bit of a downgrade. It'd also give a lot of extra room in the turret. Any plans on what to do with that?
Actually, the L7/M68 was an upgrade from the 120mm M58. It's penetration numbers were significantly higher, mostly because of increased bore pressure and better ammo. It's why the M60 ended up with the L7 and not an improved M58. The ammo was smaller and single piece which allowed faster loading, also a significant benefit, but the penetration values were much better.

As for the additional room, mostly because of the reduced crew of 4 from 5, I'm positing additional ammo in the form of a larger ready rack in the turret basket and possible shifting of the radio from the bustle to above the new ammo rack to permit more ammo in the bustle. I would bet you could fit an additional 30 rounds, all told, maybe more.

Luckily, I'm not putting an interior in this beast.

Paul

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2018, 11:23:15 PM »
Oh, I know it's a practical upgrade, and I'm not surprised it would have better penetration for the reasons stated. I just mean that you've got a lot of room to play with and could put a beefier gun in there.

I remember talking with Charles Lemons, the curator of the Patton Museum (before the US Army—in its infinite wisdom—BRAC'ed it), and he noted that the 120mm M58 gun on the M103 was kinetically more powerful than the 120mm M256A1 gun mounted on the Abrams. Obviously, advances in ammunition technology meant that the Abrams had greater effect on target, but the 120mm M58 was a monster.

The lighter gun weight also means that you should get away with the additionally turret face armor without any issue.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2018, 12:46:48 AM »
I just mean that you've got a lot of room to play with and could put a beefier gun in there.
Quote
he noted that the 120mm M58 gun on the M103 was kinetically more powerful than the 120mm M256A1 gun mounted on the Abrams. Obviously, advances in ammunition technology meant that the Abrams had greater effect on target, but the 120mm M58 was a monster.
Quote
The lighter gun weight also means that you should get away with the additionally turret face armor without any issue.

Yeah, that's kinda where I was going with all this. ;)

Looking forward to getting the up-armouring done so I can complete the build. Next really visible thing is to see if the M60 cupola is going to work or not. Not sure. It may not fit properly or I may have to move the cupola centre back a bit. Adding extra height is a good thing, right?  :o

Paul

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2018, 01:34:41 AM »
In fairness, the extra height isn't a big deal in the mountains. In fact, there are times where it can be a benefit. It would allow the vehicle to occupy a turret down defensive position and still offer infantry support before moving up into a hull down configuration.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2018, 10:47:34 AM »
Bit of an update. The applique armour is in place and just needs weld beads along the flanks. The cupola is in progress. Needs seams filled and the gap under the MG rotor filled. The 105 is in place in the mantlet and the mantlet is in place on the turret. Need to create the fabric mantlet cover out of epoxy putty. The larger turret bustle racks need to be scratch built.

Then the basic build needs to be completed and the storage added before painting.

Coming along.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2018, 12:00:40 PM »
Looks sharp. Keep up the great work!

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2018, 10:26:28 PM »
I'm quietly watching & I like what I see! :smiley: ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline LemonJello

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2018, 10:32:51 PM »
Going to be a fantastic beast when all is said and done.  Awesome work!

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2018, 10:11:11 AM »
OK, so obviously this didn't get done for the 2nd Korean War build, but I'm hoping to have it done before thend of the year to qualify for the "clear the bench" group build.

But it is proceeding.

In the attached photos you can see the build essentially done. I have a couple small things to clean up, but we're nearly at the paint stage.

Luckily, I almost have the paint booth and venting set up out in the garage. Next week I might actually get a coat of paint on the wee beastie!

You can see the new gun and armour from before, but I also now have the M48 cupola in place with modified sighting to feed coordinates to the gunner. I need to add the wire loop that prevents the cupola MG from shooting into the main gun barrel, and a canvas mantlet cover for the cupola MG.

I did get the main gun mantlet canvas cover sculpted and I have to say I really like how it came out.

Next year's AMPS international show in Buffalo has a Snow theme so I'm going to be placing this on a wintery base, with the M103 hunkered down behind a quick tank hide, probably with a whitewashed snow camo scheme, on overwatch outside Pusan.

As always suggestions and comments welcome.

Paul

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2018, 12:05:48 PM »
No suggestions required, you're taking this to a good place! 8)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Antonio Sobral

  • Building and painting tiny little things!
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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2018, 06:03:48 PM »
Nice work on the turret!   :smiley:

Offline LemonJello

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Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2018, 08:04:18 PM »
Oh, that is nice

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2018, 10:25:16 PM »
Thanks, guys.

I'm thinking of adding some angle iron extensions/cage work to the turret stowage racks. I don't think the stock ones are going to allow me to really get the "gypsy caravan" look I want once this thing is stowed up. I want it to really look like they're dragging the kitchen sink along on the fighting withdrawal back to Pusan.

But, that's simple. I may get that done tonight.

Paul

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: M-103A3 in the 2nd Korean War
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2018, 02:29:50 AM »
You don't need extra racks, just a little ingenuity! ;)





"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."