Author Topic: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?  (Read 9754 times)

Offline M.A.D

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Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« on: March 02, 2016, 10:34:52 AM »
G'day gents
I'm in the process of formulating my 'Alternative ADF ORBAT', and from time to time will require the assistance/input of the forums vast knowledge please!

What Im asking today is the Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2, in terms of dimensions, weight, capability and simplicity?

I've been reviewing my books and have focused on the Fiat Type 6616 APC/Reconnaissance vehicle.
What does the forum think?
Have you any other suggestions?

P.S. also out of interest, does anyone have any idea of the turret ring size of both the BRDM and Type 6616?

M.A.D   
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 10:36:41 AM by M.A.D »

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 12:23:21 PM »
That's something I was looking into myself recently, too, MAD. Short version is...no. There are some close equivalents in different ways, but it kind of depends on what you're looking for.

I'd say the closest equivalent, though, is something like the Cadillac Gage Commando. Similar size, capabilities, and armament, but it was never really designed for the same role. In general, though, dedicated Western recon vehicles were more commonly tracked (M114, Scimitar), less frequently amphibious (Ferret, Panhard AML), and/or far more expensive (Fox, Luchs).



On the plus side, I understand that most brands of straitjacket are easier to get in and out of quickly than the BRDM-2. You'd think that would be important in a recon vehicle, but what do I know?

Personally, I love recon vehicles, especially turreted, well-armed ones. I think they're some of the best looking military vehicles out there, but if I had to be really boring and sensible, I think something like a small, light, cheap, simple, and amphibious wheeled armored vehicle with the room for a couple of dismounts is probably ideal. The BRDM-2 isn't bad (especially for 1962), but I actually think the BRDM-1 was a bit better in concept, it's just that it wasn't suitable for the nuclear battlefield. I don't think the West stumbled upon anything comparable until the Puma 4x4, Otokar Cobra, or VBL (my personal favorite).

Cheers,

Logan

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 05:19:44 PM »
Thanks for your informative reply and insight Logan!
My retentitiveness re the similarities in size, weight and charictoristics to that of the BRDM-2, will become more relevant when my 'Alternative ADF ORBAT' is eventually posted!
What I can say, is just like the '9K31 Strela (SA-9 'Gaskin'), which had to meet the requirement's of air transportable in a Antonov An-12 'Cub', the  Western equivilant needs to be all-up,  air transportable by the ubiquitous Locked C-130 Hercules!  If you get my drift ;)

So you don't see the Fiat Type 6616 in this league Logan?

M.A.D


Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 11:58:38 PM »
It's definitely roughly analogous. It was never widely adopted, though, especially in that role, so I don't know much about how it would have compared. The Western wheeled APCs that also had a recon variant always made me wonder just how mobile they really were. If you wanted to take a little more serious look at it, I'd also calculate the power-to-weight ratio of the recon vehicles you're looking at compared to the BRDM-2 and something like a Fox (which was pretty zippy, just not amphibious).

Cheers,

Logan

Offline apophenia

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 05:37:24 AM »
M.A.D.: Does your 'Alternative ADF ORBAT' include ASLAV? If so, what about a LAV-2 equivalent to the Piranha 1B 4x4 or Mowag Spy?

The result would be a bit heavier than your OTO Melara tipo 6616 but it would be available a decade earlier (and you'd gain from fleet commonality).
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 08:47:19 AM »
M.A.D.: Does your 'Alternative ADF ORBAT' include ASLAV? If so, what about a LAV-2 equivalent to the Piranha 1B 4x4 or Mowag Spy?

I don't think the West has any small(ish) amphibious wheeled recon vehicles. The closest are the LAVs and variants and they're almost 1.5x the weight.

Offline jcf

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 11:19:41 AM »
Ferret Mk.4 was amphibious, as long as the skirts were up.  ;D


 
http://www.warwheels.net/ferret4INDEX.html

Looking through both War Wheels:
http://www.warwheels.net/index.html

and The Amphiclopedia:
http://www.amphibiousvehicle.net/frame.html

it becomes clear that  4 X 4 amphibious armored vehciles are thin on the ground, which makes it
likely that the amphibious feature is actually of very limited utility.
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Offline apophenia

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Offline taiidantomcat

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 02:58:38 PM »
Ferret Mk.4 was amphibious, as long as the skirts were up.  ;D




I think you'll find that "Ferret" is in fact a Fox, Jon...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 07:54:52 AM by Rickshaw »

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2016, 11:03:11 PM »
I think you'll find that "Ferret" is in fact a Fox, Logan...

I think you'll find that "Logan" is in fact a Jon, Rickshaw...  ;D

Cheers,

Logan

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2016, 03:37:21 AM »
Cadillac Gage Commando





Hmmm...a western equivalent to the various anti-tank BRDMs based upon the Commando would be interesting.


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Offline apophenia

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2016, 07:09:04 AM »
If amphibious capability isn't mandatory, the Dutch/German Fennek vehicle could be considered similar:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2016, 07:54:26 AM »
I think you'll find that "Ferret" is in fact a Fox, Logan...

I think you'll find that "Logan" is in fact a Jon, Rickshaw...  ;D

Cheers,

Logan

Oops, sorry!  :o

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2016, 07:57:04 AM »


This was after the Soviet occupation of Ireland was it?   ;)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 12:16:36 PM by Rickshaw »

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2016, 08:00:39 AM »
I think you'll find that "Ferret" is in fact a Fox, Logan...

I think you'll find that "Logan" is in fact a Jon, Rickshaw...  ;D

Oops, sorry!  :o

No problem. The opportunity was just too good to pass up.  ;)

Cheers,

Logan

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2016, 02:16:26 AM »
This was after the Soviet occupation of Ireland was it?   ;)

Maybe...or was it the Irish occupation of Russia? :icon_beer:
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2016, 03:29:41 AM »
Fiat Type 6616


Speaking of which, I found out today that DEF Model offer a 1/35 kit of the Fiat CM6614 which is essentially the same as a 6616:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2016, 07:18:24 AM »

Speaking of which, I found out today that DEF Model offer a 1/35 kit of the Fiat CM6614 which is essentially the same as a 6616:

It's a shame for whiffers that they don't do the 6616 because it's turret has been used on lots of other vehicles, both production and prototypes. Sometimes it carries the 25mm Bushmaster instead of the Rh.202.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2016, 03:53:18 AM »
One to warp your scenario a bit...Peruvian Fiat 6616s with Soviet 9M14 Malyutka (AT-3 Sagger) missiles:


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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2016, 06:16:13 AM »

It's a shame for whiffers that they don't do the 6616 because it's turret has been used on lots of other vehicles, both production and prototypes. Sometimes it carries the 25mm Bushmaster instead of the Rh.202.

If you want to play with these scales, there are 1/72 (Brach Models) and 1/87 (Mr Modellbau) kits of the 6616 available.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2016, 06:51:53 AM »
One to warp your scenario a bit...Peruvian Fiat 6616s with Soviet 9M14 Malyutka (AT-3 Sagger) missiles:

Those are not a very realistic models. Almost no weathering, paint is far too uniform, no surface detail, vision port edges have silvering and the tire sag looks poorly done.
oh, wait... never mind.

Offline jcf

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2016, 08:35:42 AM »
One to warp your scenario a bit...Peruvian Fiat 6616s with Soviet 9M14 Malyutka (AT-3 Sagger) missiles:

Those are not a very realistic models. Almost no weathering, paint is far too uniform, no surface detail, vision port edges have silvering and the tire sag looks poorly done.
oh, wait... never mind.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :icon_zombie: :icon_fsm:
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Western equivalent to the ubiquitous Soviet BRDM-2?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2016, 04:50:38 PM »
You could almost use a HobbyBoss LAV-150 (20mm?) to scratch-bash one of those in 1/35th. ???
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