Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 692465 times)

Offline Kerick

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3050 on: August 24, 2022, 01:43:20 AM »
I always thought the S tank , once retired from actual tank duty, would have made a great ATGM carrier. A low profile TOW turret or similar and upgraded to Javelin or some such.

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3051 on: August 24, 2022, 02:07:14 AM »
I always thought the S tank , once retired from actual tank duty, would have made a great ATGM carrier. A low profile TOW turret or similar and upgraded to Javelin or some such.

I agree.  Replace the 105mm Bofors L74 with something like TOW (or Rbs 55 in Swedish parlance), possibly in raisable launcher and have under armour reloads inside.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3052 on: August 24, 2022, 07:43:37 AM »
Agreed squared.

I always thought the S tank , once retired from actual tank duty, would have made a great ATGM carrier. A low profile TOW turret or similar and upgraded to Javelin or some such.

Ken: My first thought was some kind of urban warfare vehicle (since the strv 103 handled best on the hard). How to arm such a beast got me to my next post.

The idea is that Sweden's 'Home Guard' would receive armour for the first time. But, rather than trying to integrate them with Regular armour brigades, the Hv would specialize in urban warfare. If the Soviets get past the Regular mek and pansarbrigader out in open country, they'd then face Hv armour hunkered down in the towns and cities.

My 'Ikv 88' conversion was focused on IFV-killing - hence a turreted autocannon. The kanon would be supplemented by a cluster of short-range rockets (AT4s) circa 1989.

Were this real, I suspect that the strv 103s would've simply been uparmoured and retained their 105s. (But where's the fun in that?) Alternatively, if the S-Tanks stayed with the Regulars, I'd bet on AEV and ARV conversions instead. And I kinda like the idea of an 'Ingbv 103E' rebuild with a Pearson plough and rear excavator arm  :smiley:

... Any chance of you doing an M108 with the Denel G7 105mm gun in the original turret?...

Logan: On it ...
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3053 on: August 24, 2022, 07:45:45 AM »
From S-Tank to ikv 88 Fire-Support Vehicle

Rather than simply retire the strv 103 fleet it was decided to turn these tanks into infanterikanonvagn or infantry gun carriers. In effect, these turreted ikv 88s would perform the fire-support role of an IFV (albeit, without the infantry dismounts). The 10,5 cm kan strv 103 was removed [1] and the rear compartment revised for the installation of a 2-man turret. Initially, that turret was to be an advanced version of the turret being designed for the future srtf 90 - a genuine Infantry Fighting Vehicle. However, plans shifted.

Considerable debate occurred over the main armament needed for this form of Ikv. The ideal piece was seen to be variant of Bofors' 5,7 cm anti-aircraft gun - however, that gun would require an entirely new turret design. One alternative considered was a 'ground' derivative of another AA gun - the Bofors 4 cm L/70. But that would mean no ammunition commonality with the pending strf 90 IFVs. [2] So, a compromise was arrived at. A hybrid variant would be developed by Bofors - essentially the strf 90's 4 cm akan m/70 breech and recoil mechanism mated to the longer L/70 barrel. The resulting autocannon was designated 4 cm akan m/87.

As built, the base turret was heavily clad in kompositpansar panels and the gun-mount strengthened for the new, long-barreled Bofors 4 cm akan m/85. The commander's cupola anticipated that of the strf 90 which its intermediate 'umbrella' positioning. Other than in changes to accommodate the new turret ring, the former strv 103 hull remained largely intact. However, like the new turret, the hull was also clad in kompositpansar panels for added protection. These panels were less thick than those of the one-off strv 103D but were uninterreupted on the long and now-gunless upper glacis plate. 'Diesel-pansar' jerry cans held over from the strv 103 helped protect the lower hull sides.

The ikv 88 was considered successful as a fire-support vehicle but had a comparatively short life-span within the mekaniserade brigader. Shortly after service introduction, the planned AT4 recoilless gun became available. Four were mounted on adjustable rear turret swivels. In 1997, less than a decade after service introduction, the Ikv 88s were stood down in Sweden's regular force  Thereafter, the infanteriregementen received fire-support from strf 90s. The Ikv 88s were then passed on to the Hemvärnet (Home Guard) - making up the Hv's first use of heavier armour. New Hv-MekB units were formed on a mix of pbv 301s and ikv 88s. The Hv infanterikanonvagnikv went through their own rebuild programme in early 2000. The planned ikv 88A engine updates were passed over to an ikv 88B programme where the Hv vehicles also received standard 'short-barreled' 4 cm akan m/70 guns from strf 90s. [3]

____________________________________________

[1] These Bofors L74M L/62 gun would be transferred to the Stridsvagn 1988 programme to create the strv 108D upgrade variant. The strv 108Ds would also receive strv 103C commander's cupola (now surplus to the Ikv 88 rebuilds).

[2] The 4 cm akan m/70 - a derivative of the Bofors 40mm L/60 - fires 40×311mmR rounds. The more powerful L/70 AA gun fires longer 40×365mmR cartridges.

[3] The long-barreled Bofors 4 cm akan m/85 guns were used to re-arm strf 9040Cs (which then became strf 9040Gs). The ikv 88 turrets - modified strf 9040A types - were showing the strain of their more powerful guns. It was felt that the base strf 9040C turrets of the strf 9040G could better-handle firing loads. It was also believed that regular armén strf 9040Gs would make better tactical use of the increased firepower.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3054 on: August 25, 2022, 01:35:51 AM »
What about the Strv 103s again having their 105mm gun removed but then replaced by an articulated elevating missile launcher fitted with ATGMs or even SAMs as well - similar to below concepts:

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3055 on: August 25, 2022, 07:29:13 AM »
What about the Strv 103s again having their 105mm gun removed but then replaced by an articulated elevating missile launcher fitted with ATGMs ...

That would work!

So, here is an strv 103/56 rebuild - a de-gunned strv 103C fitted with an extensible Ericsson mast with sensors flanked by twin 'boxes' for Rb 56 BILL anti-tank missiles (the BILL system having top-attack warheads for hull-down targets)

BTW: The strv 103 here is based upon World of Tanks artwork. The 'inset' was playing with 'urban camouflage (which would be a lotta fun to fold up!).
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 07:30:54 AM by apophenia »
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3056 on: August 26, 2022, 02:14:30 AM »
Outstanding!! :-*
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3057 on: August 26, 2022, 02:16:23 AM »
Now where can I find myself an articulated arm in 1/35 or other?
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Offline Kerick

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3058 on: August 26, 2022, 03:20:47 AM »
Bandai construction equipment? Gundam?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3059 on: August 26, 2022, 04:08:39 AM »
Now where can I find myself an articulated arm in 1/35 or other?
The solution might be found with the one Italeri 1/24th scale Commercial Truck Accessory Set that contains a HIAB type hydraulic crane which would be a good start towards your elevated device.  The other less desireable option would be to stock up on plastic from Evergreen or similar and build it from scratch.  I think the Italeri accessory might be the best option and it is "affordable" if you know where to look. 

Link: ScaleMates > Italeri (3854) - 1/24th scale - Truck Accessories II
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 12:47:24 PM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3060 on: August 26, 2022, 07:03:05 AM »
Now where can I find myself an articulated arm in 1/35 or other?

Here might be a good place to start; https://www.miniature-construction-world.co.uk/jlg_models.html

Example (1/32):
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3061 on: August 26, 2022, 07:33:31 AM »
Here might be a good place to start; https://www.miniature-construction-world.co.uk/jlg_models.html

Nice! I note that there are a bunch of 'zoom boom' telehandlers in 1/35 available ... but all seem to be diecast and quite pricey!
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3062 on: August 26, 2022, 07:40:54 AM »
Here might be a good place to start; https://www.miniature-construction-world.co.uk/jlg_models.html

Nice! I note that there are a bunch of 'zoom boom' telehandlers in 1/35 available ... but all seem to be diecast and quite pricey!

Greg didn't mention price, so I didn't look, nor could I find plastic versions in the quick search I made but die-cast & styrene can be made to play together. ;)


PS: I did check the Hasegawa site & they don't make any .... yet.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 07:42:44 AM by Old Wombat »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3063 on: August 28, 2022, 09:22:44 AM »
... Any chance of you doing an M108 with the Denel G7 105mm gun in the original turret? ...

M108/G7 Light Experimental Ordnance - an American M108 SP gun with its piece replaced by a Denel G7 L/52 LEO howitzer.
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3064 on: August 31, 2022, 03:15:47 AM »
Thanks! If it wasn't for the fact that they made so many M109s, something like that might've been a decent re-use of surplus M108s.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Gingie

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3065 on: August 31, 2022, 04:06:48 AM »
Now where can I find myself an articulated arm in 1/35 or other?

Great suggestions for sourcing above. The imminent Leopard 2 ARV contains a single crane with a boom. Now, the Trumpeter LAV-R and Husky have articulated cranes, but the second section might have to be inverted to achieve that S-tank look.

The nice folks at Accurate Armour might sell you just the casting of the Warrior MRV crane.

Another option would be a segmented telescoping tube like the Danish ETS, and bonus, you can sculpt a textile boot around the sections! Easy-easy!


Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3066 on: September 03, 2022, 08:14:04 AM »
So much cool stuff lately.   8) The S-tank derivatives are pretty darn neat.

As for putting 122mm D-30s in M108, I recently had an idea for, well, the opposite: putting a 105mm howitzer into a 2S1 Gvozdika. A Ukrainian Abbott, so to speak. Ukraine seems quite happy with their L119s replacing/augmenting their D-30s, so switching the 2S1 to something NATO-compatible as well might make sense.
I guess the D-30/2S1 barrels are getting a good workout & will wear out sooner or later. Not sure who's producing barrels & willing to sell. 122mm ammo demand may also exceed production capabilities.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #3067 on: September 10, 2022, 03:24:14 AM »
Moritz ... apologies for the late response.

I would think that swapping out worn D-30s for smaller NATO 105s would be quite feasible. I suspect that Ukrainian gunners are happy with their M119/L119s mostly because - unlike their old Soviet-era stuff - these 205 pieces are not worn-out .

Looking further out, the UK's L118s are due to be replaced by 2030. It seems to me that this and the need to replace old Soviet 122s represents an opportunity for NATO. Some have suggested replacing 105 field guns with mortars. The problem is that, like the 105s,  120 mm mortars are easily out-performed by the old D-30s (especially on maximum range). So, planners keep sliding towards more unwieldy 155s as 105 replacements. Maybe there's a better way?

ThinkDefence.uk said that the UK looked at 127 mm naval pieces as potential L118 replacement. And that does sound like a good match for the D-30. But, AFAIK, there has been no progress on adapting Excalibur or the OTO-Melara Vulcano for 127 mm rounds. And, besides, those naval rounds are huge - 127 x 835mm R for the Mark 45 'lightweight gun'!

I wonder if a possible answer might lie in another naval piece - the BAE 114 mm/55 Mark 8 Mod 1. This is a proven design which entered RN service in 2001. Once again, an issue is the size of its shells - 114 x 700 mm R vs 105 x 326 mm R for the L118. But what if the 'brass' was scaled-down to something more D-30 size? Say a 114 x 450 mm R round for field artillery and SPs? You could keep the Mark 8's 'base bleed' HE-ER option but, I suspect that a 'land 114' would out-range the 122 simply by virtue of its smaller shell.
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