Author Topic: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 72780 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2013, 03:20:49 AM »
What about the upgrade proposed to the RAAF as an alternative to replacement in the late 70's, I believe it included a RR Viper installed on top of the aft fuselage beneath the tail fin.

Never heard of that one.  Do you have any more details?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 08:55:02 AM »
It was a couple of lines in one of Stewart Wilsons Aust Airpower books, Meteor, Sabre, Mirage from memory.  Interstate at the moment so can't look it up.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2013, 03:05:31 AM »
Ah, found it - been a number of years since I last read that book.  Here's what it says (no pictures...yet ;)):

"...major refurbishing and re-engining alternatives were offered by Israeli Aircraft Industries and in 1970 by Rolls-Royce's Bristol Engines Division who proposed the Mirage IIIO 'Plus'.  their scheme involved installing an afterburning Viper turbojet in its own pod on top of the rear fuselage (rather like a DC-10's central engine), remounting the existing fin on top of that, zero timing the airframe, lengthening the forward fuselage to compensate for the changed centre of gravity and installing extra fuel in that new area of fuselage..."
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2013, 05:00:59 AM »
Maybe a Mirage III Business Jet:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding...
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2013, 06:52:12 AM »
Maybe a Mirage III Business Jet:

When you just have to get to yesterday's meeting --- right ?     ;D

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2013, 11:33:15 AM »
Why not?  There was a proposal for a F-106 "command staff" transport.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2013, 12:35:01 PM »
Some variations with F-5 nose
Does that F-5 or F-20 nose come with F-20 intakes (as it appears to)?  Those would work with an of the engines suitable for the Mirage III or derivatives (anyone for slipping a F404/F414 into a Dagger or something similar.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2013, 02:19:06 AM »
Provisional Drawing of Mirage IIIO Plus by Jemiba over on Secret Projects.

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2013, 06:20:24 AM »
 :) :-* :)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2013, 03:56:09 AM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2013, 07:44:51 AM »
While lacking in originality, putting that incredibly long Israeli recce nose from the Kfir on a Mirage III would make a great JMN-grabber.     I liked the idea enough that Heller's Mirage III was ordered in to give it a go.    As to the operator?  Who knows.  Perhaps it'll go into some Anti-cocaine intelligence operations somewhere S. of the US border.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2013, 09:00:02 AM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404

Didn't IAI offer a Kfir re-engined with the Volvo RM-12? Don't think there were any takers, but it would have made an interesting pair with a Singaporean Super-Skyhawk powered by a non-afterburning F404...
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2013, 02:12:56 PM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404
Didn't IAI propose that under the name Nammer.  It may have been the start of what became the Lavi since their original concept used a F404 and only went to the PW1120 when studies by themselves and others showed the F404 inadequate for how the design was growing.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 02:40:29 PM »
There's an echo in here!  :D

I'm only remembering long-gone magazine articles here, but  I thought the RM-12 Kfir came well after the Lavi - it was an attempt to shift the pool of suplus Kfirs that Israel was having difficulty selling off.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2013, 03:18:43 PM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404

Didn't IAI propose that under the name Nammer.  It may have been the start of what became the Lavi since their original concept used a F404 and only went to the PW1120 when studies by themselves and others showed the F404 inadequate for how the design was growing.


Good memory:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 04:58:44 AM »
So the F404/RM-12 could fit?

And range would improve?
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 05:06:09 AM »
ATAR 9C:

Length: 5,900 mm (232 in)
Diameter: 1,000 mm (39 in)
Dry weight: 1,456 kg (3,210 lb)
Maximum thrust:
  42.0 kN (9,440 lbf) military power
  58.9 kN (13,240 lbf) with afterburner
Specific fuel consumption:
  103 kg/(kN·h) (1.01 lb/(lbf·h)) military power
  207 kg/(kN·h) (2.03 lb/(lbf·h)) with afterburner

F404/RM12:

Length: 3,912 mm (154 in)
Diameter: 889 mm (35 in)
Dry weight: 1,036 kg (2,282 lb)
Maximum thrust:
  11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
  17,700 lbf (78.7 kN) with afterburner
Specific fuel consumption:
  Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf·h) (82.6 kg/(kN·h))
  Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf·h) (177.5 kg/(kN·h))
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2013, 05:19:23 AM »
I'm surrounded by experts!  :)


Will look for a suitable resin nozzle.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2013, 05:21:06 AM »
Another IAI Nammer picture:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2013, 05:21:37 AM »
I'm surrounded by experts!  :)

Who?  Where?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 05:51:15 AM »
Daryl's JMN moment:   How is the fidelity of shape for the ESCI/Scale Craft 1:48 Kfir?   

It just seems like there will be an increased number of them on the market with the new toolings coming available.   There are some Mirage/Kfir hybrids I'd like to do sometime, for example a Swiss hybrid with a similar paint job to Ron Cline's Rafale on Hyperscale.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 07:11:31 AM »
I think I have both a 1/72 RM12 from a Gripen kit and a 1/72 Mirage III C.  This could be interesting once I get my new workshop sorted out.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2013, 02:19:33 AM »
Just a cool, inspirational video

Mirage Flightline Butterworth 1986
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2013, 02:25:52 AM »
Interesting the way the inboard u/c doors retract as they power up the engines on the starter: another thing to think about when considering if your "standing" model is standing completely switched off or standing just about to roll....
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2013, 02:06:23 AM »
For anyone who has ever wondered what Fanta Can Scheme looks like:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.