Author Topic: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat  (Read 27829 times)

Offline sequoiaranger

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2012, 05:52:17 AM »
I took a couple of resin, metal, and vac kits of the F5F/XP-50 (pre MPM) combined to make this:



I liked the lengthened nose (but not the nosewheel) and spinners of various makes of this Grumman twin.

>Operational F5F with R-2800 engines entering service in early 1943 would wreak havoc on IJN.<

OR the Italians, OR the Germans!!



Bobcat shown here has its LG down to (ahem!) tighten its turn against the He-113!!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 05:57:19 AM by sequoiaranger »
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2012, 11:27:10 AM »
How about a crop duster derivative of the Tigercat...based on the firebombed version:




Gave me flash of using same color scheme for a SR-71 crop duster.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2012, 11:30:50 AM »
 ;D
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2012, 11:34:28 AM »
An obvious variation is a production Grumman P-65 in USAAF squadron markings.  I wonder how it would've evolved separately from the F7F?

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2012, 02:15:41 PM »
The USAF would have stuffed cameras in the nose instead of a radar unit and used it instead of the F-51 complete with NMF and white polkadots on a red background.   ;D
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2012, 02:59:49 PM »
Speaking of Tigercats, isn't this a nice one...


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2012, 07:56:17 PM »
Do the 'crew' have to hang on to the wings, a la 'Flight of the Phoenix', when it's airborne?  :) ;)
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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2012, 12:25:54 AM »
I have plans to graft a Lockheed F-5 nose onto a XF5F to create a F5F-2P.

Great idea. Anxiously looking forward to the end result.


This is a no go as the F-5E (the P-38 one that is not the Northrop one) nose is actually pretty big and there is nowhere to really append it on the stub-nosed Skyrocket. I'll have to go through my spare nose jobs but failing anything else I can always mount a podded radar in the vein of the P-38M and make her a nightfighter.


Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2012, 12:50:39 AM »
I have plans to graft a Lockheed F-5 nose onto a XF5F to create a F5F-2P.
Great idea. Anxiously looking forward to the end result.
This is a no go as the F-5E (the P-38 one that is not the Northrop one) nose is actually pretty big and there is nowhere to really append it on the stub-nosed Skyrocket. I'll have to go through my spare nose jobs but failing anything else I can always mount a podded radar in the vein of the P-38M and make her a nightfighter.


That is most unfortunate.  I recently experienced something similar but was trying to mate up a resin 1/32nd scale F-5 camera nose conversion to a 1/48th scale Lockheed Ventura and discovered that it was not going to work as I had imagined.  I might try to use the parts from the Academy P-38 kit that includes the BTO, F-5, and night fighter parts instead but that is still undetermined at this point. 

Might I suggest that for your own project that you expand your search to include something more rotund in cross section?  Perhaps the nose from the de Havilland Mosquito will work for your project, it has the more circular cross section that could mate up with the nose of the Skyrocket.  Looking for something that is not in the same scale as your Skyrocket might also work to your advantage.  Scale-O-Rama!
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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2012, 06:20:46 AM »
Well I've looked at a Ju-290, A-26, B-25H, P-38J and Mosquito nose but none have the right contours. I've also investigated using an inverted 1/48th Mosquito Merlin cut to fit (you had to be there). None of them look as good as that F-5E nose so I'm going to use the F-5E nose dammit!   >:(

I've cut grooves into the nose to get it to sit down onto the leading edge of the wing and am using bits of sprue to create a bridge between it and the fuselage which I can later fill in. So far so good. If it works, I'll start a build thread. If not, I'll be open to ideas and/or inspiration!

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2013, 01:55:30 AM »
Folks:

I found yet another use of Ta-152 wings: F7F. Heh heh heh.  >:D

But I suspect to obtain sufficient power at 40,000' plus altitude, superchargers are  necessary mandatory.

How would you modify the Monogram F7F to incorporate superchargers? Push the engines forward but mess with the C of G?  Extent the engine nacelles back? Mount them on top like the P-38?

Engineers, please break out your slip sticks and fill my brain with laplace and fourier translations.  ;D
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2013, 02:14:51 AM »
Folks:

I found yet another use of Ta-152 wings: F7F. Heh heh heh.  >:D

But I suspect to obtain sufficient power at 40,000' plus altitude, superchargers are  necessary mandatory.

How would you modify the Monogram F7F to incorporate superchargers? Push the engines forward but mess with the C of G?  Extent the engine nacelles back? Mount them on top like the P-38?

Engineers, please break out your slip sticks and fill my brain with laplace and fourier translations.  ;D
I would not push the engines forward, that adds more headaches unless you've got an equivalent weight to balance things.  Are you going with mechanically-driven superchargers or exhaust-gas-driven turbo-superchargers?  This make a big difference in potential layouts.  Too, in either case, will you be using intercoolers to get the temperature of the supercharger flow down?  This, too, makes a big difference in efficient component arrangement.

I'm not at all certain that you need to extend the nacelles, they look to be long enough now.  For one idea, you might want to look at the Japanese heavy high-altitude fighters from WW II.  ISTR that at least one had the turbocharger at the aft end of the nacelle with the exhaust pointing aft.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2013, 03:19:56 AM »
Well I've looked at a Ju-290, A-26, B-25H, P-38J and Mosquito nose but none have the right contours. I've also investigated using an inverted 1/48th Mosquito Merlin cut to fit (you had to be there). None of them look as good as that F-5E nose so I'm going to use the F-5E nose dammit!   >:(

I've cut grooves into the nose to get it to sit down onto the leading edge of the wing and am using bits of sprue to create a bridge between it and the fuselage which I can later fill in. So far so good. If it works, I'll start a build thread. If not, I'll be open to ideas and/or inspiration!

I would look at the Lockheed RF-80 nose, there's a good possibility that it will match

Offline jcf

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2013, 03:24:46 AM »
The F7F was powered by a two-stage supercharged R-2800, so what extra supercharger
are talking about adding? The F7F-3 version had a service ceiling of 40,700 feet, so any
big gain over that would probably be a matter of changing blower size, ratio, etc. None
of which would create much in the way of external appearance, except perhaps some
sort of enlarged air intakes. Possible, but not something that would necessarily happen
as Grumman and P&W seemed to work well together on creating extemely clean installations
in that period, which is demonstrated by both the F7F and F8F.

Stick on the long wings and just tell folks the blower system was tweeked for higher altitude.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2013, 03:30:00 AM »
Folks:

I found yet another use of Ta-152 wings: F7F. Heh heh heh.  >:D

But I suspect to obtain sufficient power at 40,000' plus altitude, superchargers are  necessary mandatory.

How would you modify the Monogram F7F to incorporate superchargers? Push the engines forward but mess with the C of G?  Extent the engine nacelles back? Mount them on top like the P-38?

Engineers, please break out your slip sticks and fill my brain with laplace and fourier translations.  ;D

I would say the engine already has a supercharger --

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2013, 03:47:32 AM »
The F7F was powered by a two-stage supercharged R-2800, so what extra supercharger
are talking about adding? The F7F-3 version had a service ceiling of 40,700 feet, so any
big gain over that would probably be a matter of changing blower size, ratio, etc. None
of which would create much in the way of external appearance, except perhaps some
sort of enlarged air intakes. Possible, but not something that would necessarily happen
as Grumman and P&W seemed to work well together on creating extemely clean installations
in that period, which is demonstrated by both the F7F and F8F.

Stick on the long wings and just tell folks the blower system was tweeked for higher altitude.


Student Pilots, here is a prime example of RTFPN. Read The F**king Pilot's Notes.   :-[

Now, Pilot Trainee Carl will now walk to the black board, wear the pink BTS leather helmet of shame and write 1,000 times:

"I will always read the Pilot's Notes first before I ask a question."



Just to make it a look a wee bit different, I'll add some air scopes to the side of the nacelle.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 04:33:37 AM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline jcf

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2013, 05:28:32 AM »
Jowl scoops like the F4U-5 or P-61C would definitely suggest a boost in output.



“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
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conspiracy.”
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2013, 06:26:33 AM »
Well I've looked at a Ju-290, A-26, B-25H, P-38J and Mosquito nose but none have the right contours. I've also investigated using an inverted 1/48th Mosquito Merlin cut to fit (you had to be there). None of them look as good as that F-5E nose so I'm going to use the F-5E nose dammit!   >:(

I've cut grooves into the nose to get it to sit down onto the leading edge of the wing and am using bits of sprue to create a bridge between it and the fuselage which I can later fill in. So far so good. If it works, I'll start a build thread. If not, I'll be open to ideas and/or inspiration!

Not sure if this for the XF5F or the F7F but it appears that tail perspex from the Frog Shackleton with a bit a styrene shim and PSR could give the F7F a glass nose.
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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2013, 07:14:49 AM »
^ It was for the XF5F and the F-5E will fit with a bit of precisionish sanding and a fair amount of filler - one day. Your pointer is noted with great interest though.  :)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2013, 11:40:04 AM »
Not sure if this for the XF5F or the F7F but it appears that tail perspex from the Frog Shackleton with a bit a styrene shim and PSR could give the F7F a glass nose.

A Droop Snoot TigerCat would be quite a sight but I suspect that accommodations within that forward compartment might be a bit cramped :)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2013, 12:57:56 PM »
Possibly painful on a hard landing, too (much like the P-38 trainers the Italians did).  Just a thought, what if the F7F had kept the twin verticals of the F5F instead of, or in addition to, the existing vertical tail (perhaps much cut down).

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2013, 05:35:05 PM »
Not sure if this for the XF5F or the F7F but it appears that tail perspex from the Frog Shackleton with a bit a styrene shim and PSR could give the F7F a glass nose.

A Droop Snoot TigerCat would be quite a sight but I suspect that accommodations within that forward compartment might be a bit cramped :)

Not according to Airfix if their pilot physiognomy is correct.  ;D

New name for the A/C: "Droopy cat"
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2013, 02:43:18 PM »
How about a small jet in the tail?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2015, 09:17:31 PM »
Interesting that the Plastic Borg mentioned installing the Vickers Class "S" class 40mm S Guns on a P-40.

I have plans (only on paper of course) to install a 75mm and maybe two 40mm guns on a F7F.  The 75mm could come from a Italeri HS-129B-3. Or would the cannon/barrel be shorter T13E1 / M5 design as installed in the B-25H (the online images of 1/72 B-25Hs kits do not have a full length cannon, just a stub). So would have the US used a stock 75mm barrel as used on a M4A3 Sherman? How accurate was the short barrel T13E1 / M5 75mm? 

Yes, there was the Beech A-38 Grizzly with the new-designed T15E1 (M10) 75 mm cannon.



But hey, the F7F/R-2800 were proven design, in mass production so why not retro fit it? The R-2800-34W produced 2,100 HP and 2,400 HP with water-methanol injection. Same HP as the A-38's R-3350. And the F7F was 90 MPH faster.

And BTW I have several F7F kits in the stash and no A-38s.  8)


NB: Don't forget there was the Vickers P Class 47mm cannon.


Source: Wikimedia
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 09:22:24 PM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Piston Twins - XF5F Skyrocket and F7F Tigercat
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2015, 10:19:37 PM »
The other option is the 6pdr / 57mm Molins gun as installed on the Mosquito Tsetse. It was used for anti shipping strike but I believe was originally intended for anti armour and CAS.  Also, as I understand it the 6pdr has superior armour penetration characteristics to the US75mm.