Author Topic: Self Propelled Artillery  (Read 55836 times)

Offline Queeg

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2013, 04:17:28 AM »
Some of the others posted are also anti-aircraft systems.


True but the 88 is more than capable of both direct and indirect fire .....    :)


On the Elefant/170mm I think you'd probably need to stretch it with another set of bogies. It's actually quiet short. I did the twin 88 below but when I looked at fitting the Revell 170mm to a TigerII hull I ended up getting another hull as even though they're longer than the Elefant they still needed to be stretched to fit the weapon.


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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2013, 04:18:59 AM »
The 128cm Zwilling was not self-propelled, nor was the platform it's mounted on tracked,
it's more along the lines of a rubber-tired rail car designed to be towed by a large tractor.

Indeed.   I believe they were almost always in fixed mounts such as Flak Towers.  I may be wrong, but there is possibly even a chance that the trailer the one in the photo is shown on might not be its original trailer (Note: speculation only)
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2013, 04:20:20 AM »
Is that an auto-loading system on the twin 88?  Did you finish that?!  Me likey  8)

Figures jcf...  Shows how much I know about armor  ;D  One thing I do know though is that twin 128 flak gun is NOT the same as the proposed twin 128 naval mounting for DDs that never got off the drawing board.
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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2013, 04:21:44 AM »
True but the 88 is more than capable of both direct and indirect fire .....    :)


On the Elefant/170mm I think you'd probably need to stretch it with another set of bogies. It's actually quiet short. I did the twin 88 below but when I looked at fitting the Revell 170mm to a TigerII hull I ended up getting another hull as even though they're longer than the Elefant they still needed to be stretched to fit the weapon.




Agreed - I was thinking this thread was more about artillery though rather than those guns simply operating in a ground-to-ground role such as the 88' could.

Either way, still appreciate the great post since it still has added to the inspiration. :)

I love the look of that creation of yours too.  I also agree that a stretch may well be necessary for my idea.
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Offline Queeg

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2013, 04:25:43 AM »
The 128cm Zwilling was not self-propelled, nor was the platform it's mounted on tracked,
it's more along the lines of a rubber-tired rail car designed to be towed by a large tractor.

Yeah its on an 80t Culemeyer heavy lift trailer. But ....... for inspration purposes I thought you could replace the wheels with tracks for an interesting looking SP flatbed sort of thing.

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2013, 01:27:19 PM »
Another candidate for the Elefant SPG might be the 21 cm Mörser 18:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2013, 02:52:55 PM »
That photo of the twin gun on the tracked hull (now trackless) gives me an idea.

It never had tracks.  That is the wheeled transporter for the static, twin 12.8cm Flak guns which were used in and around German cities.  The tyres are solid rubber.  It was meant for moving it short distances from the railway yards (where they arrived from the factory) to the Flak positions (often Flak Towers).  They used the same transporter for the less successful 10.5cm Flak guns which were dedicated to static positions.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2013, 11:54:55 PM »
Not quite artillery, but I had the thought of replacing coast artillery with GLCM launchers carrying anti-ship configured ground-launched Tomahawks.  Of course, if you're expecting aggressive "visitors" with sophisticated defensive systems, you might want to go with a BGM-137B derivative that fits the sensors and warhead of the anti-ship AGM-137A version.  The launch support for the BGM-137B being straight-forward.

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2013, 02:34:31 AM »
A crude drawing I did a while back:

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Offline Queeg

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2013, 04:32:14 AM »
A crude drawing I did a while back: ...........

Looks pretty good!  I gather that's a 150cmsFH18? If so it certainly puts it under some decent armour cf with the Hummel.  Also if the weapon isn't going to be visable then you probably dont have to worry so much about the fit/practicality of it inside if you want to fit the larger 10cm or 170cm.

Offline jcf

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2013, 05:01:29 AM »
The hybrid propulsion system of the Porsche Tiger/Elefant opens up all sorts of possibilities
for rearranging its guts to make room for artillery.
Flat-12 in place of V-12, diesel instead of petrol, true 'boxer' opposed-piston diesel or maybe a
turbine instead of piston engine for the engine half of the engine/generator system.
Perhaps a flat engine driving flat vertical axis dynamos so everything fits beneath the 'floor'?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2013, 08:36:48 AM »
Greg, I think you'll need to extend the cabin and chassis of your Elephant.  The German large calibre guns used a system of inclined slides to absorb a lot of the recoil when they fired.  It made the carriages larger but lighter, compared to most other artillery pieces of similar calibre.  Essentially the gun mount had some recoil absorbing accumulators on it which absorbed about 50% of the recoil and that was in turn mounted on an inclined slide with it's own recoil system, that absorbed about another 30% and the remaining 20% was absorbed by the carriage resting on the ground.  That meant a long carriage was required.  So, either you'd need to build bigger accumulators onto the mount or give it a very big recoil spade (and accept a decreased mounting life).

Offline Gingie

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2013, 01:38:19 AM »
...open a hatch in the bottom hull plate for high angle  ;)

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2013, 02:13:32 AM »
I was thinking that the rear etc would be opened fully in operation.  This would allow for the recoil etc.  In essence these would be halfway between a towed traditional gun and a modern fully self propelled gun....if that makes sense?  The crew would have partial armour protection but certainly wouldn't be operating/firing entirely under cover like a modern SPG/H does.

One of the issues with systems such as the 17 cm Kanone 18 is that they were notoriously difficult to maneuver, and very slow to set up and tear down; as such many were lost when their crews abandoned them to avoid capture by advancing Allied forces.  By putting in a heavy tracked vehicle (even partially) some of this may be avoided.
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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2013, 02:41:54 AM »
Hmmm...now I am in two minds.  Do I go with a Elefant with a large gun in a semi-propelled mount or do I go with a smaller gun and make it fully propelled and traversable turret that is fully enclosed?   Arrrgghhh!!!!

PS.  The first one of you who says "do both" will find themselves in the BTS Gulag! C:-)
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2013, 02:43:22 AM »
Do the fully enclosed/traversable turret!!!  Have it ahead of its time  8)
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2013, 02:49:06 AM »
Make it like a Bandkanone: cut down everything aft of the engine bay to track guard height, then fit a stnading-height rotation turret on that platform.
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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2013, 02:52:14 AM »
Hmmm...thanks for reminding me of that one:





Has anyone ever kitted this?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 02:54:01 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Queeg

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2013, 04:03:41 AM »
Ohhhh that's nice! Love the bulk crane loading system. Its very similar to this (know it's not German but it's along similar lines).


Offline jcf

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2013, 07:43:01 AM »
Do the fully enclosed/traversable turret!!!  Have it ahead of its time  8)


Ya mean like the KV-2?
 ;D

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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2013, 08:38:25 AM »
Yeah well....I.....SHUT UP!  >:(


 ;D
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Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2013, 11:49:34 AM »
Queeg.. what scale is that 5.5in on Cromwell ?
is it based on this one off design using the Crusader ?


This is creeping up my build list in 1/35.. I have the old (and somewhat sad) Hinchcliffe 5.5 inch.. even though it is really 1/32ish.
But I am far too cheap to spring for the Accurate Armour jobby.. so far. Although if I see one at Scalemodelworld.......... >:D




Offline Queeg

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2013, 04:39:58 PM »
Queeg.. what scale is that 5.5in on Cromwell ?
is it based on this one off design using the Crusader ?

Hey matey, it's the Airfix 5.5 (OO-HO 1/76th) with a new barrel. I figured maybe they'd need to cut the recoil a little hence the muzzle brake and wouldn't worry so much about any lost range due to the increase in mobility.
I'd already built it when someone showed my this photo for the first time and thinking about it now I probably should have gone for a front mounted transmission/final drive. At least the Revell Cromwell has now been re-issued so I can pick up a few more and finsih off the unit.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2013, 06:18:47 PM »
Do the fully enclosed/traversable turret!!!  Have it ahead of its time  8)


Ya mean like the KV-2?
 ;D


Perhaps like the Heuschrecke 10?


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Re: Self Propelled Artillery
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2013, 02:51:56 AM »
what about a heavy SPG/H based upon the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus or E-100?
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