Author Topic: Empty Handed's Profiles (Read 190355 times)

Empty Handed · « **Reply #75 on:** January 14, 2012, 10:48:23 AM »

Republic F-84J Thunderstreak USAF Kentucky ANG by mtpalmer1, on Flickr

Republic's second YF-84J was significantly different from the first. While both shared a General Electric J73 engine, the No.2 prototype introduced a bubble canopy and an AN/APG-36 radar in a revised nose that also featured a chin intake. Whilst nowhere near as manoeuvrable as North American's Sabre Dog, the resulting aircraft was a decent bomber-destroyer that saw service with a number of squadrons.

Here, a Kentucky ANG F-84J-25 engages both it's afterburner and a target banner.

Maverick · « **Reply #76 on:** January 14, 2012, 11:54:54 AM »

Some really nice stuff there.

Regards,

John

elmayerle · « **Reply #77 on:** January 14, 2012, 02:27:02 PM »

I take it that YF-84J uses the radar nose and inlet developed on the XF-91? That looks gorgeous and would be right at home partnered with F-86Ds in US service or F-86Ks in export service (I could see them in the markings of any country using either the F-84F or the F-86K in RL).

Brian da Basher · « **Reply #78 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:26:01 PM »

Nice stuff, Empty Handed! I'm really enjoying your Thunderstreak permutations. Keep 'em coming!

Brian da Basher

Empty Handed · « **Reply #79 on:** January 14, 2012, 08:33:48 PM »

Thanks guys!

Quote

I take it that YF-84J uses the radar nose and inlet developed on the XF-91?

With a few tweaks, yes. In some ways, the YF-84J was more advanced than the XF-91 (not least in having a J73) so I've decided to develop the F-84J as an interim interceptor while I develop the Thunderceptor into the AP-54/F-102 (lets say Convair are busy with B-58 and Atlas developments) with the obviously long-lead F-103 being deferred until later.

I have given thought to something of a navalised XF-91 (sans rockets) as the wide landing gear track and variable-incidence wings may make it the only post-war Republic product that lends itself to carrier service. I believe I read somewhere that low-speed handling was actually quite good.

In the meantime, any requests on the TF-, L or J?

Bladerunner · « **Reply #80 on:** January 15, 2012, 05:45:20 AM »

Cool stuff, but how about trying the classic Sabre nose intake on it?

Scooterman · « **Reply #81 on:** January 15, 2012, 10:51:01 AM »

Quote from: Empty Handed on January 14, 2012, 01:25:59 AM

SWEET MONKEY JESUS!!!!!

elmayerle · « **Reply #82 on:** January 15, 2012, 11:29:34 AM »

Quote from: Empty Handed on January 14, 2012, 08:33:48 PM

Thanks guys!
In the meantime, any requests on the TF-, L or J?

Well, the first thought that comes to mind is a TF-84F in Italian Frecce Tricolori markings along with one in operational Italian markings. The F-84J is an obviously one for any country who operated F-86Ks, perhaps a Norwegian one with Arctic operational markings? As for the ERF-84L, perhaps something in German markings (or an extreme version fitted out for Zero-Length Launch as a rapid response to WarPac aggressive moves). If you could find an image, or set thereof, of the old Hawk ZEL setup for a straight-winged F-84, it could probably be a good guide. Having had to deal with a boosted ground-launched cruise missile, I think I could give some help there. Too, if you can find the old Smithsonian AIr & Space video "Runways of Fire" you can get some more useful information.

apophenia · « **Reply #83 on:** January 15, 2012, 12:17:02 PM »

Quote from: Empty Handed on January 14, 2012, 09:52:49 AM

Thanks apophenia! My weathering technique is to spray dark grey/black over the panel lines on a separate layer and adjust the opacity of the layer to taste. I also use the multiply/screen function of the airbrush and various brushes on each individual colour to make a mottled effect. Hope that makes sense.

It does and thanks for the explanation. The effect is excellent -- and a bit like digital pre-shading.

A TF Request: Hellenic AF -- and the more beat up, the better

Empty Handed · « **Reply #84 on:** January 16, 2012, 02:16:48 AM »

Thanks for the feedback guys! elmayerle, I hope you'll forgive me a degree of artistic license.

Republic JRF-84L Thunderflash USAF ZELL by mtpalmer1, on Flickr

The JRF-84L launches in it's usual spectacular fashion.

elmayerle · « **Reply #85 on:** January 16, 2012, 04:39:39 AM »

That's a gorgeous pic of a ZELL launch. I'll grant you the artistic license (renewable after 5 years) for that picture, but the rocket really should be at a bit shallower angle relative to the fuselage datum as the rocket thrust vector has to go through the center of gravity of the whole assemblage or you get some real controlability problems (this was covered in the Runways of Fire video and article. It seems a test with a F-100 was delayed and the assemblage sat in the sun for several hours; differential heating bent the airframe to where the rocket thrust was rather off the cg and, when they did launch, the pilot had quite the wild ride.

Empty Handed · « **Reply #86 on:** January 16, 2012, 04:59:11 AM »

Quote

A TF Request: Hellenic AF -- and the more beat up, the better

I take it you didn't like this one from earlier in the thread then?

Republic TF-84F Twinstreak HAF by mtpalmer1, on Flickr

Well, here she is again at the end of her career, suitably dirty.

Republic TF-84F Twinstreak HAF Camo by mtpalmer1, on Flickr

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...but the rocket really should be at a bit shallower angle relative to the fuselage datum

Hmmm... now you mention it, the thrust line does run a little too far aft. Shall we say the camera equipment in the nose was deleted for the test?

Maverick · « **Reply #87 on:** January 16, 2012, 07:02:04 AM »

The ZELL launch is some wild stuff!

Regards,

John

Empty Handed · « **Reply #88 on:** January 16, 2012, 09:57:58 AM »

Thanks Mav!

This next one was a nightmare. I just can't seem to get blue right. Also can anyone spot what the problem was in going from a low-wing aircraft to a mid-wing one...... $:-\$

Fiat G.84PAN AMI Frecce Tricolori by mtpalmer1, on Flickr

The Fiat G.84 was a licensed-built version of the Republic TF-84F, differing from the later mainly in having a revised, photo-recce nose with a chin intake and in being powered by a Bristol Siddeley Sapphire rather than it's cousin, the Wright J65.

Here a G.84PAN (lacking combat equipment) of the Frecce Tricolori makes a practice pass on an otherwise dreary day at Rivolto.

elmayerle · « **Reply #89 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:00:37 AM »

Quote from: Empty Handed on January 16, 2012, 04:59:11 AM

Quote
...but the rocket really should be at a bit shallower angle relative to the fuselage datum

Hmmm... now you mention it, the thrust line does run a little too far aft. Shall we say the camera equipment in the nose was deleted for the test?

that combined with the extra weight of the rocket attach and jettison equipment and fitting at the back end works for me. Trust me, it gets even more "interesting" when you're working with two boosters.

elmayerle · « **Reply #90 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:02:44 AM »

The G.84PAN is gorgeous in those markings. I hope we'll see more of these aircraft in Italian markings.

Empty Handed · « **Reply #91 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:15:17 AM »

Thanks!

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Trust me, it gets even more "interesting" when you're working with two boosters.

Oh dear! I went with two boosters because of the ventral strake I've fitted to all the two-seaters. How interesting?

Quote

I hope we'll see more of these aircraft in Italian markings.

Oh, at least a G.91T equivalent and a Getti Tonanti or two are in order. If anyone is allergic to orange, they should probably avoid this thread!

elmayerle · « **Reply #92 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:29:01 AM »

Quote from: Empty Handed on January 16, 2012, 10:15:17 AM

Thanks!

Quote
Trust me, it gets even more "interesting" when you're working with two boosters.

Oh dear! I went with two boosters because of the ventral strake I've fitted to all the two-seaters. How interesting?

Well, you have to take into account both the cant and clock angles of each booster nozzle to get the thrust vector of each booster through the combined cg of the vehicle (the cg is normally on the aircraft centerline so you have to clock each booster at an angle so that the thrust vector goes through the centerline). The main effect on any depictions would be that the rocket exhaust nozzles would show as ovals rather than just flat planes (for reference, take a look at pictures of the boosters on a Snark - somewhere I've got a copy of the alignment procedure for those boosters). Barring other restrictions, the mounting hardware for the boosters covers the cant angle with the horizontal plane and booster design and an alignment procedure deal with getting the clock angle correct. There's usually a specified cg range to design to and launched aircraft have the weight and balance done to make sure their cg is correct.

Maverick · « **Reply #93 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:42:05 AM »

I'm guessing the Frecce Tricolori red line is the issue with the Italian machine?

I'm also guessing that with two boosters, if one fails 'interesting' would be a very mild comment to make!

Regards,

John

elmayerle · « **Reply #94 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:56:13 AM »

Quote from: Maverick on January 16, 2012, 10:42:05 AM

I'm also guessing that with two boosters, if one fails 'interesting' would be a very mild comment to make!

Rather, it's one reason there's considerable qualification effort on even "simple" solid fuel boosters. I don't know of any case where there's been a problem, but that's more likely indicative of the care and caution taken. I was working on boosters for a ground-launched missile and the testing was quite stringent, I can imagine what it would be for boosters used with manned aircraft.

Buzzbomb · « **Reply #95 on:** January 16, 2012, 03:07:47 PM »

Well I am slow to the party.. I love the Basking Shark on the first page for starters... and the plethora of others ....Great work

apophenia · « **Reply #96 on:** January 17, 2012, 05:25:02 AM »

Quote from: Empty Handed on January 16, 2012, 04:59:11 AM

Well, here she is again at the end of her career, suitably dirty.

Thanks EH! I meant to ask for a camouflaged Greek but you've de-garbled my request

Empty Handed · « **Reply #97 on:** January 17, 2012, 10:30:33 AM »

Quote from: buzzbomb on January 16, 2012, 03:07:47 PM

Well I am slow to the party.. I love the Basking Shark on the first page for starters... and the plethora of others ....Great work

Thanks! Slow or not, nice to see another friendly face! I do plan on revisiting the Basking Shark (and it's antipodean Hawker cohorts) in the near future.

Quote

I meant to ask for a camouflaged Greek but you've de-garbled my request

Yeah, I had a feeling which one you meant. I'm quite a fan of that scheme myself!

Fiat G.84T AMI by mtpalmer1, on Flickr

AMI Fiat G.84T.

JoseFern · « **Reply #98 on:** January 18, 2012, 08:47:07 AM »

Very nice variants of the TF-84! :)

What about a twin-engined AMI G.84Y?

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #99 on:** January 18, 2012, 04:47:56 PM »

Or maybe uninhibited...


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Author Topic: Empty Handed's Profiles (Read 190355 times)