M113 Family of Vehicles

[Weaver]

Norwegian NM135 with a different 20mm turret. Apparently, these were originally intended as light AAA vehicles and were only later used as troop carriers:

[AGRA]

Swiss M113 with the same 20mm cannon turret as the Pbv.302:

That's a good what if turret because it uses a second hand 20mm Hispano fighter cannon. Which was made surplus by the thousand in the 40s, 50s and 60s as all the WWII and post WWII fighters (and some bombers) equipped with them were scrapped. The Swedish Pbvs sourced their cannon from scrapped Tunnan fighters.

[GTX_Admin]

Hmmm...what if they had done the same with other cannon and thus given some M113s 30mm cannon?

[Frank3k]

A variant of the  ACV-S has a Bradly turret on it and can even be equipped with a BMP-3 turret.  Add an extra road wheel, different turret and armor and you have a new vehicle. The M113 - a real world Whiff!

[AGRA]

I didn't want to post this picture before from Hunnicutt's Bradley in case it pre-empted Weaver's work. Nothing is new under the sun?



But not to worry M113 Scimitar turret fans because this is actually a turret from the Fox scout car! So therefore an entirely different concept. No context as to what the proposal was for but possibly a sales attempt from the makers of the Rarden 30mm gun?

[AGRA]

Hmmm...what if they had done the same with other cannon and thus given some M113s 30mm cannon?

My Hispano turret whiff idea leads to a 30mm replacement. This alternate ‘Australia’ has a fleet of M59 APCs (predecessor to the M113) which they use in Vietnam with a diesel engine, hydrostatic transmission upgrade (courtesy of the license production LVTP6 for their Marine Corps). The late model M59 comes with a M13 cupola with 12.7mm M2HB as standard along with one inch of steel belly armour making it in many ways far better than the M113 (especially with hydrostatic transmission replacing the difficult to drive differential steering) in Vietnam. Anyways as is the way the small cupola and ‘un lethal’ 12.7mm was replaced with a larger one man turret fitted with an air force surplus 20mm Hispano and 7.62mm MG. The Hispano was also to arm a new domestic design wheeled IFV under development in the early 1970s but the Army wanted improved anti-armour firepower. So having to replace a weapon within the footprint of the Hispano they went for a ground to ground gun firing the 30x113mm ADEN ammunition. With the highly effective 30mm M789 HEDP of Apache fame this is a highly lethal anti light armour and anti-personnel weapon. This new gun was analogous to the Hughes 30mm ASP but entering service in the late 70s and could replace Hispanos and even 12.7mm M2s (and 12.7mm M85s on their Marine Corps M66 tanks).

[Weaver]

I didn't want to post this picture before from Hunnicutt's Bradley in case it pre-empted Weaver's work. Nothing is new under the sun?

No worries - I'd have been amazed if it hadn't been proposed for real, given the Scorpion-turreted MRV and the Fox/FV432.

Always thought this turret looked like a good idea. Yes I know this isn't an M113, but it could easily go on one and would be an ideal, minimum space increase replacement for an M2HB cupola:



The Netherlands put a different turret with the same gun (25mm Oerlikon KBA) on their YPR-765 (AIFV)s:



Lastly, here's an AIFV (Turkish?) with a different turret, the French Dragar:

[Weaver]

Here's a photostream of an XM734 that apparently went to Israel then ended up with Orange County SWAT! The XM734 was the first attempt to put firing ports and centre-seats in an M113 and was the start of the process that led to the AIFV:

Orange County Sheriff's Office

 

[AGRA]

M113 with 20mm:



M113 with 25mm:



Also the turrets for the Bradley (minus TOW launcher) and LAV-25 were all fitted to M113s for trials.

I guess we should be asking which turrets HAVEN'T been fitted to an M113?

[Rickshaw]

I am sure I've seen this turret on an M113 in the dim, distant past.  I can't see why you couldn't use it as IIRC it fitted the standard cupola ring.

[Gingie]

I am sure I've seen this turret on an M113 in the dim, distant past.  I can't see why you couldn't use it as IIRC it fitted the standard cupola ring.

Something like this?

[Gingie]

Cdn M113A3 with LAV-25 turret during AIFV trial.

 

[apophenia]

Cdn M113A3 with LAV-25 turret during AIFV trial.

Thanks for that Gingie!

Rickshaw: Perhaps you thinking of the RWS M113s of the Ejército de Chile? The ECh also has YPR-765 AIFVs and tested Piraña 6x6s with the same turret.

[Weaver]

Egyptian stretched M113 with a Bradley turret:

[Weaver]

M113 with the Israeli/Italian 60mm HV gun:

[Weaver]

I always liked this Spanish TC-3 turret, used on their BMR 600 6x6 APCs. It's operated and loaded from under armour, the gunner's fully head down, it provides simple optical sighting and vision and direct mechanical controls. It seems to have all the best bits of an RWS and a manned turret.

As far as I can see, the Spanish never mounted the TC-3 on their M113s, but it would go a treat.



http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3039.html

[Frank3k]

An M113 with an M1117 ASV turret would be interesting. Maybe not the same firepower as a 25mm or 30mm chain gun, but the 40mm grenade launcher can do a fair amount of damage, while the M2HB can remind baddies that it's to be taken seriously.

[Rickshaw]

Gingie/apophenia:  I'm pretty sure it was a standard European M113 - perhaps Dutch/Swiss?

Still looking for any 3 view drawing of the M113AS4:

[Weaver]

Interesting mod here, but if the original M113 gunner was a bit exposed....

[AGRA]

Interesting mod here, but if the original M113 gunner was a bit exposed....

I saw one of these Lebanese M113s with an AA gun on the roof in which they had welded together some steel plate to provide a gun shield. But it was 2-3mm thick mild steel which would have the same bullet proof effectiveness as cardboard. Wouldn’t even stop a 9mm bullet.

[Weaver]

This is interesting: Canadian M113 with SS11 launchers:



Apparently, these went into service in small numbers. More pics, and an interesting discussion here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/thread/1327617906/Berlin+Wall+Crisis+Canadian+Centurion

[Gingie]

Still looking for any 3 view drawing of the M113AS4:

The AS4 is being worked on by a styrene model making company. No further info at this time.

[Rickshaw]

Still looking for any 3 view drawing of the M113AS4:

The AS4 is being worked on by a styrene model making company. No further info at this time.

Interesting.  Any idea which one?

[Gingie]

yep!

[GTX_Admin]

As something subtle, what about a standard M113 with the 25mm cannon turret from the YPR-765?