Author Topic: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 2055 times)

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Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« on: September 09, 2022, 02:14:14 AM »
A thread for your Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration.

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2022, 02:15:40 AM »
How about a airliner version but with a later, more powerful engine such as a Db605 or 603 or Jumo 213 instead of the BMW VI 7,3?
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Offline jcf

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2022, 01:18:32 AM »
BMW VI: 510 kg (1,124 lb)

DB 603: 920 kg (2,030 lb)

DB 605: 756 kg (1,667 lb)

Jumo 213: 1040 kg (2,072 lb)

DB 601: 600 kg (1,323 lb). Tested on He 270 V1, a Heinkel proposal to overhaul and re-engine He 70Fs.

Also bear in mind that He 70 series had a wooden wing, spars and covering.
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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2022, 01:33:21 AM »
Rolls-Royce purchased one He 70G (G-ADZF) that was used as an engine development testbed,
it's most well known for its use in development of the Kestrel. It did not have the offset canopy
of the He 70A and it had a longer fuselage.

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2022, 01:56:26 AM »
Adding in the rough powers to below and power to weight ratios (for engines):

BMW VI: 510 kg (1,124 lb)  740hp thus 1.45 hp/kg

DB 603: 920 kg (2,030 lb) 1,726 hp thus 1.87 hp/kg

DB 605: 756 kg (1,667 lb) 1,455 hp thus 1.92 hp/kg

Jumo 213: 1040 kg (2,072 lb) 2,022 hp thus 1.94 hp/kg

DB 601: 600 kg (1,323 lb). Tested on He 270 V1, a Heinkel proposal to overhaul and re-engine He 70Fs.  1,158.9 hp thus 1.93 hp/kg


Another idea derived from the Kestral mention would be a post war Spanish version re-engined (ala HA-1112 and CASA 2.111) version using a 1,600 hp Rolls-Royce Merlin 500.  This would have a power to weight ratio for the engine of roughly 2.15hp/kg.  It would also remain a degree of commonality for support with the other tow platforms.

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2022, 09:47:57 AM »
What about an updated He 70K fitted with a BMW 801?



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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2022, 12:29:20 AM »
Certainly possible though realistically I feel that most 801s would be going to other applications.  BTW comparing the actual 1,000 hp WM-K-14 radial engine to the BMW 801 we get the following:

  • WM-K-14:  1000hp at weight of 503 kg thus 1.99 hp/kg
  • BMW801C:  1,539 hp at weight of 1,012 kg thus 1.52 hp/kg
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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2023, 03:03:33 AM »
Random idea:  turboprop testbed
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2023, 03:27:28 AM »
Random idea:  turboprop testbed

Hmmm ... Hungarian He 170 fitted with a prototype Jendrassik Cs-1 turboprop as a testbed for the Varga RMI-1 X/H?
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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2023, 03:33:12 AM »
That would work
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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2023, 04:20:37 AM »
Lot of Spitfire in them wings or is it the other way around ?

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2023, 09:13:31 PM »
I wonder if you could make some sort of special operations machine from it. Strip the passenger cabin out and refit it for parachutists.

Given where the boarding door is, it should be easy enough to paradrop a small special operations group from it.
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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2023, 02:16:38 AM »
Torpedo bomber?
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2023, 03:51:56 AM »
Torpedo bomber?

That could work. If you compare the He 70F with the near-contemporary Douglas TBD-1, wing areas and empty weights are roughly comparable. (Assuming that the Heinkel torpedo-bomber is not also a carrier aircraft, I don't think that 2.7 m2 less wing area would signify.) MTOW suffers on the Heinkel mainly due to the lower-powered and much heavier BMW VI engine.

The He 170A's WM-K-14 put out slightly more power than the Devastator's R-1830-64. For German service, substitute a roughly-equivalent Bramo Fafnir or BMW 132.

BTW, for Rickshaw[/b]'s Remember Eureka story, I used the He 270 as the basis for a floatplane torpedo-bomber.
-- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg19416#msg19416
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2023, 08:24:24 AM »
Adding in the rough powers to below and power to weight ratios (for engines):

BMW VI: 510 kg (1,124 lb)  740hp thus 1.45 hp/kg

DB 603: 920 kg (2,030 lb) 1,726 hp thus 1.87 hp/kg

DB 605: 756 kg (1,667 lb) 1,455 hp thus 1.92 hp/kg

Jumo 213: 1040 kg (2,072 lb) 2,022 hp thus 1.94 hp/kg

DB 601: 600 kg (1,323 lb). Tested on He 270 V1, a Heinkel proposal to overhaul and re-engine He 70Fs.  1,158.9 hp thus 1.93 hp/kg


Another idea derived from the Kestral mention would be a post war Spanish version re-engined (ala HA-1112 and CASA 2.111) version using a 1,600 hp Rolls-Royce Merlin 500.  This would have a power to weight ratio for the engine of roughly 2.15hp/kg.  It would also remain a degree of commonality for support with the other tow platforms.


Testbed for HA-1112 merlin installation?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 04:15:57 PM by elmayerle »

Offline apophenia

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2023, 05:37:06 AM »
estbed for HA-1112 merlin installation?

A quickie retouch ... Hispano Aviación S.A.'s Heinkel He 70M ([i[Merlin[/i]) testbed conversion.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2023, 04:18:12 PM »
Testbed for HA-1112 merlin installation?

A quickie retouch ... Hispano Aviación S.A.'s Heinkel He 70M ([i[Merlin[/i]) testbed conversion.

That does look rather tempting.  By the same token, I wonder if the one owned by Rolls-Royce ever flew with a merlin?

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2023, 01:38:50 AM »
I wonder if the one owned by Rolls-Royce ever flew with a merlin?

From what I have been able to find, no it did not.
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Offline jcf

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2023, 01:11:29 AM »
Torpedo bomber?

That could work. If you compare the He 70F with the near-contemporary Douglas TBD-1, wing areas and empty weights are roughly comparable. (Assuming that the Heinkel torpedo-bomber is not also a carrier aircraft, I don't think that 2.7 m2 less wing area would signify.) MTOW suffers on the Heinkel mainly due to the lower-powered and much heavier BMW VI engine.

The He 170A's WM-K-14 put out slightly more power than the Devastator's R-1830-64. For German service, substitute a roughly-equivalent Bramo Fafnir or BMW 132.

BTW, for Rickshaw[/b]'s Remember Eureka story, I used the He 270 as the basis for a floatplane torpedo-bomber.
-- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg19416#msg19416

Would the He 70/170's wooden wing be able to take the stress of being a torpedo bomber?
As designed it's a doubtful proposition as it wasn't stressed for that sort of role, the He 170
was a so-so military aircraft because of the design origin as a lightweight, high-speed airliner.

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline apophenia

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Re: Heinkel He 70 Blitz Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2023, 04:15:44 AM »
Would the He 70/170's wooden wing be able to take the stress of being a torpedo bomber?
As designed it's a doubtful proposition as it wasn't stressed for that sort of role, the He 170
was a so-so military aircraft because of the design origin as a lightweight, high-speed airliner.

Hmmm. RW solution? Substitute He 119 wing panels for He 70 originals? A bit more span, lots more area ...

Wingspan - He 70F: 14.8 m (48 ft 7 in) == He 119: 15.9 m (52 ft 2 in)
Wing area - He 70F: 36.5 m2 (393 sq ft) = He 119: 50.2 m2 (540 sq ft)

Modelling scale-o-rame solution? Substitute 1/72 He 111H wings on 1/48 Blitz? New span would be 313.88 mm instead of original 308.33 mm.

The latter notion was prompted by the memory sequoiaranger scale-o-rama'ing an ancient Faller 1/100 He 111 into a 1/72 single-engined
aircraft a decade+ back -- https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=215.25
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."