Author Topic: Hawker Havoc  (Read 1097 times)

Offline Kerick

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Hawker Havoc
« on: August 06, 2022, 08:24:21 AM »
From ysi-maniacís cyber drawing of a straight wing Hunter I have commenced to build something similar. A salvaged Matchbox Hunter fuselage, some wings from an F-86 donated by Ron from IPMS Duneland, an old 1/32nd scale F-16 centerline drop tank, (where would we be without drop tanks!) a Jaguars tail and junk box parts should be able to do it. Further inspiration was found in the Boeing Skyfox aircraft proposed back in the 80ís. Iíve mentioned this in a couple other threads but I figured it was time to start a real thread.
My stumbling block right now is what should the two engines look like? Is there 5000+lb thrust dry British engines from the 80ís or earlier that would work mounted A-10 style? Iíve been looking around and havenít found anything that would look right except for some 1/100th scale A-10 engines.
The concept here is Hunter airframes with previously undiscovered wing cracks are recalled from everybody that ever bought them and rebuilt with straight wings to reinforce the Harriers in their ground attack missions. This is from a build up of events leading to the war in 1985. See the novel ww3 1985.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1375759.The_Third_World_War
So if anyone has suggestions about engines Iíd love to hear them while I sand putty for awhile.

 First is the starting pile of junk.



Not all of this will be used, just different options.
Here's some parts glued up after paint stripping with Easy Off oven cleaner in the yellow can.



I've added the old F-16 fuel tank cut close to the original Hunter fuselage length. Also the tapered end of a gas bag for a Harrier style laser nose.
This is an overall shot of the future configuration.





I don't know if I should square off the F-86 wings or leave then the way they are. They will receive winglets pretty soon. I replaced the first Jaguar tail with a different one that had the ECM gear already on. The engines are from the old box scale Hustler from God knows when. Very brittle plastic. I cut off much of the front and rear of each pod and glued extra plastic on to have something to shape into an inlet and exhaust. I'll have to do something with the canopy as a very small portion of the rear edge was short shot. Probably fill it and paint something over it. With the laser nose I'll add some GBU laser guided bombs and/or a couple of Mavericks. Landing gear is going to be a problem. The original main gear wouldn't work with the F-86 wings and I don't have the wheel well covers anyway. The nose Gear I can work around as the gear doors are pretty simple but for the main gear I'm thinking something that retracts forward like the A-10. I'll have to see what else I have in the junk box.

Here's a couple of pics of the Skyfox so you can see some of my inspiration.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Skyfox
« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 01:01:27 PM by Kerick »

Offline raafif

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2022, 11:56:19 AM »
 :smiley:  T-tail please.

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2022, 12:31:30 PM »
That will probably happen! Glued the wings on and tail strakes.

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2022, 03:19:12 PM »
Spent most of the evening making wing pylons and landing gear. The nose gear will be as standard Hunter as I can make it while the main gear will not be. The F-86 wing is nearly solid and would not line up with the Hunter gear wells anyway so Iím trying to make it something A-10 style with the legs retracting forwards into wells made from an old pair of missiles. Iíll see how this goes and if it will be acceptable. At least it will fit between the pylons and allow more whizz bang stuff under the wings. I donít recall ever seeing a Hunter with a center line pylon. Much too close to the ground Iím sure. Maybe Sidewinder rails offset left and right of center like some Starfighters.

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2022, 01:52:42 PM »
A little more progress on the Havoc. I've epoxie puttied over the old intakes. Some JB Weld stuff that's been laying around too long. It hardened up ok after 24 hours. Really too old to use any more. Anyway, I tried to follow the Skyfox example and make space that in a real aircraft could be used for fuel or other gizmos.



I also added eight pylons under the wings. The outer ones will hold Sidewinders.



The slipper tank looking add ons will be the A-10 style wheel wells. I painted on some acrylic white for a primer over the epoxie putty just to seal it a little. I'm working on a new speed brake, either similar to the original one or "flipper" style like an F-16 on the notch behind the green wing roots. Still not quite happy with the engines. I wish I could find some biz jet stuff without ordering a kit for $30. I'll think of something.

Offline finsrin

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2022, 07:32:14 AM »
Nice - look forward to more pics  :smiley:

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2022, 05:19:55 AM »
I tried an experiment last night. I havenít been happy with my attempt at engines for this project. A friend from my model club donated several small scale airliner engines to the cause. Unfortunately he only had singles instead of pairs. I disassembled one that looked the closest to what I was thinking of and cleaned it up by sanding all the paint off. The exhaust cone I was able to duplicate by cutting off a (guess what!) drop tank. The halves of the engine I coated in WD40 and covered with JB Weld epoxy to make a pair of molds. Fortunately the WD40 worked as a mold release agent and everything came apart as planned. Now I just have to wait for a sunny day to fill them with UV resin. Too cloudy today no UV to speak of so maybe tomorrow.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 01:02:12 PM by Kerick »

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2022, 01:00:31 PM »
Here's the pics I promised. I filled in the areas around the new main gear wells and tacked together the engine and horizontal stabilizers in a semi T tail arraignment. Some adjustment may be required.







Here's a low horizontal stabilizer arraignment. I'm leaning to the T tail at the moment.







Here's how the air brakes will look. I'll add the spreader and piston tomorrow.



These are the UV resin cast engine parts I copied from the plastic engine. Lots of clean up required. The WD40 worked for releasing the plastic parts from the JB Weld molds but not as well on releasing the UV casting from the molds. I'll have to remember to use a heavier oil next time.



Once I get them cleaned up by course sanding I can glue them together with CA glue. A little PSR on the outside to clean them up too. I might have to pin them to the fuselage for extra strength.

Offline finsrin

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2022, 04:27:17 PM »
Quite a project.  Like conversion of old intakes into classy wing strakes.  Everything looking right !

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2022, 10:30:07 PM »
T-tail definitely looks the way to go! :smiley:

I'd be interested to see an engineer's report on the effects of those air-brakes on the air-flow into the engine intakes. ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2022, 12:05:55 AM »
The lip of the intake is ahead of the air brakes so should work ok. If this was RW a problem would be airflow into the engine at high angle of attack. But thankfully this is whiff world so no worries.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 02:30:21 AM by Kerick »

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2022, 01:29:07 AM »
Looking good
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2022, 10:15:00 AM »
The lip of the intake is ahead of the air brakes so should work ok. If this was RW a problem would be airflow into the engine at high angle of attack. But thankfully this is whiff world so no worries.

This is just me being an incomplete uni physics student, so don't concern yourself too much with it, but the JPN (Joyless Physics Numpty) in me tells me that you're going to get a high pressure zone between the engine & the wing forward of the air-brake which will, quite quickly become a funnel channelling pressurised air directly over the wing into the engine intake; therefore, the top plate of the air-brake will become less effective whilst the engine will begin providing more thrust, leading to a rather sudden pitch-down of the nose (unless the pilot throttles back on opening the air-brakes & pulls back on the stick to keep the nose up - which will then lead to your high angle of attack issues).

You will notice that the A-10's air-brakes are in the outer wings (split ailerons / decelerons).




I still think it's a great build, by the way, it's just this annoying, nagging little part of my brain that won't shut up. :smiley: :smiley:
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 10:17:47 AM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2022, 11:16:12 AM »
You are probably right but I had to put some air brakes somewhere but itís whiff world so no sweat. I appreciate the input. I could just put speed brakes that fold downward in the current position and under the fuselage. HmmmmmÖÖ

Offline finsrin

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2022, 11:25:25 AM »
BTW -- Liking them speed brakes.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2022, 11:26:44 AM »
Don't sweat it, mate! As I said, it's just the JPN in me being annoying. ;) :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2022, 11:50:32 AM »
I might put some under the fuselage anyway. Or there is the four petal system around the butt end of the fuselage like the F-105. As I recall it worked well and had no effect on the control of the aircraft. Something to think about. A little like the Buccaneer but with four petals. Or maybe three?

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2022, 12:10:27 AM »
Looks good! You can also try wingtip air brakes like the Su-25:


Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2022, 02:10:53 AM »
So many options! Iíll have to think about this. I thought about engraving some spoilers on top of the wing.

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2022, 11:19:37 AM »
She's got legs!! (cue ZZ Top)



And a new seat, and some almost done engines! The landing gear is made up of all kinds of parts from the junk box.
And completed engines are installed with a T tail.





The Areo club metal seat just barely keeps it from being a tail sitter.



I might have to flatten some weights to put under the cockpit floor. I'm also thinking of the extended Sabrinas with the chaff/flare dispensers.







I do have one issue. I have these weapons in the spares box and I don't know if they are useful or not. The rocket pods might be Russian for all I know. I think the bomb with the rectangular fins might be legit. I only have one Hunter gas bag so I robbed a Mitsubushi F-1 kit for larger ones.



What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 11:30:36 AM by Kerick »

Offline finsrin

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2022, 12:54:15 PM »
Rocket pods do scream Russian to me.  The others seem to work.  Whole configuration flows together nicely.   :smiley:    Great photos.

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2022, 02:44:41 AM »
The rocket pods look like SNEBs and the bomb a British 1000 lb (see below for examples) so absolutely perfect for this build IMHO:




CFBV
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2022, 06:04:40 AM »
Just the ticket! Thanks!

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2022, 05:06:39 PM »
Super good work  :smiley:

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2022, 10:47:54 PM »
I might put some Mavericks on instead of the pods so weíll see what happens. Iím looking forward to getting some primer on to get rid of the multi color look. Plus Iím going to rebuild the cockpit to add weight and give a little justice to the Aero club seat. Iím on vacation on a lake in Arkansas so nothing will get done until Monday or so.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2022, 11:09:04 PM »
Iím on vacation on a lake in Arkansas so nothing will get done until Monday or so.

Oh, how terrible for you! ::)


 ;D ;D ;D


Enjoy your vacation, mate! :smiley:
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2022, 12:47:58 AM »
Trying to make the best of the situation. You know, friends, food, boats. Things like that seem to help.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2022, 07:46:59 AM »
Iím on vacation on a lake in Arkansas so nothing will get done until Monday or so.

"The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners."

Someone had to do it! Thanks for taking one for the team Ken  ;D
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Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2022, 08:15:23 AM »
Putt putt golf tomorrow!

Offline finsrin

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2022, 09:56:12 AM »
Ya lernt me them rocket pods aint necessarily Russian !

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2022, 01:34:21 PM »
Drilled out the cannon ports last night. Looks much better. I extended the Sabrinas and installed chaff/flare dispensers. I needed more weight in the front end so while I had them off I filled in the hollow parts with bits of lead sliced off a fishing weight. Added some more lead just behind the cockpit so now it sits properly when I add the metal Aeroclub seat. Itís supposed to be sunny tomorrow so I will try filling in the short shot part of the canopy with UV resin. I hope it works. I used the clear PVA glue before so thatís an option.

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2022, 02:15:33 PM »
Progress  :smiley:

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2022, 11:23:18 PM »
Well, I filled the short shot part of the canopy with the UV resin. It hardened in the full sunlight as planned. When I sanded it down and was ready to polish it it suddenly just popped off. So itís onto the clear pva glue. At least I can shape that with water instead of sanding and polishing. Iím rebuilding the cockpit as the Matchbox kit had an imaginary seat and a big hole.

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2022, 12:39:26 PM »
Here's the Aeroclub seat compared to the Matchbox seat.



I've boxed in the cockpit so it at least looks like a cockpit. Plus the metal seat helps keep it from being a tail sitter.
I'm going to have to bite the bullet soon and paint this contraption.  I've bought Tamiya acrylic paints, thinner and cleaner so I'm hoping this all works together properly!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 12:45:52 PM by Kerick »

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2022, 12:00:33 PM »
Painted some weapons today. Is there a good generic thinner for enamels? Some of mine are getting thick in the jar and go on a little goopy. Itís either that or I need new paints all the time. Iíve tried lacquer thinner but the paint seems to go bad soon after. Maybe mineral spirits?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2022, 10:19:13 PM »
The best option is the thinner manufactured by the brand you use, until you can work out the active ingredients in that & find cheaper alternatives.

However, some brands' thinners are quite a concoction of chemicals & are either very difficult or impossible to replicate, & you will, therefore, be stuck using them.

Mineral turps is OK for Humbrol, but I wouldn't use it in the tin. Even their brand thinners isn't great for that.

Keeping the lid & rim of the tin/jar smooth & undamaged, & clean of paint is your best starting point to prevent the paint drying out; &, when you use it, mix it in the tin/jar & transfer some to a pallet, then seal the tin/jar again while you use the paint on the pallet.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 10:26:14 PM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2022, 12:38:42 PM »
Good advice! Thanks. Iíve sent keeping the jar and lid clean and that does help. I tried some lacquer thinner in some modelmaster white enamel so weíll see what happens to that. That white was definitely going ďoff whiteĒ anyway. As bad as the old Testors white that you had to add light blue to it to keep it from turning yellow.

Offline Kerick

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Re: Hawker Havoc
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2022, 10:32:53 AM »
Got the weapons looking good and added some decals.