Do you have a date for that first photo?
More random ideas:
ZELL Mirage.
Cranked Arrow Mirage: reduce the LE sweep outboard of the notch and fit AAM rails on the tips.
What about the upgrade proposed to the RAAF as an alternative to replacement in the late 70's, I believe it included a RR Viper installed on top of the aft fuselage beneath the tail fin.
Maybe a Mirage III Business Jet:
Some variations with F-5 noseDoes that F-5 or F-20 nose come with F-20 intakes (as it appears to)? Those would work with an of the engines suitable for the Mirage III or derivatives (anyone for slipping a F404/F414 into a Dagger or something similar.
Random idea: Mirage III re-engined with GE F404
Random idea: Mirage III re-engined with GE F404Didn't IAI propose that under the name Nammer. It may have been the start of what became the Lavi since their original concept used a F404 and only went to the PW1120 when studies by themselves and others showed the F404 inadequate for how the design was growing.
Random idea: Mirage III re-engined with GE F404
Didn't IAI propose that under the name Nammer. It may have been the start of what became the Lavi since their original concept used a F404 and only went to the PW1120 when studies by themselves and others showed the F404 inadequate for how the design was growing.
I'm surrounded by experts! :)
ATAR 9C:
Length: 5,900 mm (232 in)
Diameter: 1,000 mm (39 in)
Dry weight: 1,456 kg (3,210 lb)
Maximum thrust:
42.0 kN (9,440 lbf) military power
58.9 kN (13,240 lbf) with afterburner
Specific fuel consumption:
103 kg/(kN·h) (1.01 lb/(lbf·h)) military power
207 kg/(kN·h) (2.03 lb/(lbf·h)) with afterburner
F404/RM12:
Length: 3,912 mm (154 in)
Diameter: 889 mm (35 in)
Dry weight: 1,036 kg (2,282 lb)
Maximum thrust:
11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
17,700 lbf (78.7 kN) with afterburner
Specific fuel consumption:
Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf·h) (82.6 kg/(kN·h))
Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf·h) (177.5 kg/(kN·h))
Ay caramba!
I believe the proposal for a F404-powered Kfir is known as "Nammer".
Nose Intake
([url]http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/mirage_nose_intake.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/mirage_nose_intake.jpg.html[/url])
That looks astonishingly plausible for a MiG-21 variant, too!
That looks astonishingly plausible for a MiG-21 variant, too!
That looks astonishingly plausible for a MiG-21 variant, too!
I think you'll find there was a real example Xenia
A-144/1 and A-144/2 MiG-21-based testbeds for the Tu-144 wing designs are what I'm reckoning the reference is to. Both are available from, if memory serves me correctly, Art Model.That looks astonishingly plausible for a MiG-21 variant, too!
I think you'll find there was a real example Xenia
Really? What where when?
That looks astonishingly plausible for a MiG-21 variant, too!
I think you'll find there was a real example Xenia
Really? What where when?
I idea that I had, and I've got the parts and decals for: ESA shuttle trainer. Two-seat Mirage IIIF in a hi-vis scheme with ESA markings, used to train pilots of the European Shuttle to make dead stick landings in a delta. Got the Falcon 2-seater conversion (vac-form fuselage), got the ESA markings (2 x tiny Ariane 4 kits), now all I need is a Heller IIIE.Depending on what wing planform the European Shuttle uses, you might want to modify the Mirage III planform to match.
I idea that I had, and I've got the parts and decals for: ESA shuttle trainer. Two-seat Mirage IIIF in a hi-vis scheme with ESA markings, used to train pilots of the European Shuttle to make dead stick landings in a delta. Got the Falcon 2-seater conversion (vac-form fuselage), got the ESA markings (2 x tiny Ariane 4 kits), now all I need is a Heller IIIE.Depending on what wing planform the European Shuttle uses, you might want to modify the Mirage III planform to match.
Leave the single vertical and ignore the wingtip ones, NASA did that in using the F5D for similar training for the X-20 Dyna-Soar pilots (Neil Armstrong among them). It would also make for a simpler conversion.
If you look, it also gets Russian missiles.
Given Russia's involvement with South Africa on a Mirage F.1 update, including a RD33 engine, this is quite plausible, and getting a chance to base aircraft that far south could be of value to Russia's interests.
It tempts to put rudimentary fins along the lines of the Kfir canards along the long tailpipe fairing of the earlier Mirage III variants. Position them at 120 degrees off vertical. I've always thought there was almost enough length there for a full pair of horizontal stabilizers.
1 was the in-service Cheetah wing with dogtooth and leading edge extension outside the dogtooth, 2 and 3 were flown. Number 4 was to be the one with the wingtip stations that suffered due to the budget cuts and ending of the programme.
Random thought: how about Indian Air Force Mirage IIIs instead of MiG-21s?That could make identifying friend or foe rather interesting in conflict with Pakistan, particularly if Pakistan deliberately put their Mirages where they'd tangle with the Indians.
Random thought: how about Indian Air Force Mirage IIIs instead of MiG-21s?That could make identifying friend or foe rather interesting in conflict with Pakistan, particularly if Pakistan deliberately put their Mirages where they'd tangle with the Indians.
InterestingFairly doable, too, as I believe there are some 1/100 F-4 kits (ISTR Revell Snap-Tite kits in that scale) that could be used.
InterestingFairly doable, too, as I believe there are some 1/100 F-4 kits (ISTR Revell Snap-Tite kits in that scale) that could be used.
To start you off, how about a photo of crew working on that rarely seen Mirage III-ES, three engined (one in rear and two vertically mounted behind pilot, Yak-38 style) ESTOL Mirage ;)
([url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/RAAF_Mirage_III_TRIAD_84_1.JPEG/800px-RAAF_Mirage_III_TRIAD%20_84_1.JPEG[/url])
Found online:
([url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SbnOvW9hecU/T3h8m0ahygI/AAAAAAAAAD4/v1PNt2YZB2M/s1600/mirage3_usaf_1.jpg[/url])
([url]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-30bbbUZE2bw/T3h8vKdRJkI/AAAAAAAAAEA/4cPuqJj60J8/s1600/mirage3_svaf_1.jpg[/url])
([url]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BidccvB9C54/T3h81t_MWBI/AAAAAAAAAEI/4nny4irvUgo/s1600/mirage3_luftwaffe_1.jpg[/url])
<....>
They do look similar (and would suffice for a build) though may need to be moved forward for the NG:
([url]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner152/4CCCB76F-A8B8-4DF0-8E8D-C902D214E77D_4_5005_c_zpsln7xwue8.jpeg[/url])
<...>
On a different tangent, I wonder about a RAAF Mirage III fitted for anti-shipping strike with an Exocet such as shown on these:Great idea!
<<<snip>>>
Would be a subtle whiff to confuse people.
And I just made the interesting discovery that I don't appear to have a Mirage III kit of any sort in the stash. Hmmm....
And I just made the interesting discovery that I don't appear to have a Mirage III kit of any sort in the stash. Hmmm....
You will find a box of assorted Mirage 3 kits in the stash at the precise time you are looking for somewhere to put the new Mirage 3 kits that have just been delivered, including the $3925 resin one you ordered for some reason.
On a different tangent, I wonder about a RAAF Mirage III fitted for anti-shipping strike with an Exocet such as shown on these:To go along with RAN Sea Harriers carrying one or two of the same missile?
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner157/Mirage%205PA3_zpsl8ztuhmw.jpg)
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner157/images-11_zps2mzxvbeq.jpeg)(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner157/mirageExocet_zpstb103afc.jpg)
Would be a subtle whiff to confuse people.
([url]https://combatace.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh173/SPINNERS1961/WHAT%2520IF%25202010/WHAT%2520IF%25202011/USAFMIRAGE5BA07_zpsf217d141.jpg&key=15d474bde869545c818ad962db9d5dcecf57bbe21200573471907fe5e3ac834f[/url])
([url]https://combatace.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh173/SPINNERS1961/WHAT%2520IF%25202010/WHAT%2520IF%2520ALBUM%2520A/USAF%2520MIRAGE%25203B.01_zpskjytpl60.jpg&key=20a8eac1391d69ae67364fcab3f5c5a7348a4e1fc5e9eb6d43169f26b3f09868[/url])
Thinking of doing a Turkish Mirage 5
Thinking of doing a Turkish Mirage 5
Instead of the F-5? Suggestion for possible scheme:
(https://i0.wp.com/theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Turkish-Stars-NF-5-scaled.jpg?fit=2560%2C1430&ssl=1)
More on my oddball Mirage III family there, does anyone know of a conversion for the Mirage Milan in 1/48:
(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner157/4_zps3c3bs1bl.jpg)
I'm wondering, with the LTV A-7 and Dassault Milan together, what nationality air force trial might have been occuring here?🤔
I'm wondering, with the LTV A-7 and Dassault Milan together, what nationality air force trial might have been occuring here?🤔
Switzerland - In 1972 the choice for a new fighter was between the Milan and the A-7G Corsair II. Eventually neither was selected and instead the Swiss Air Force purchased 30 additional, surplus Hawker Hunters in 1973.
I don't think there was ever a proposal for a unrelated engine version....
So essentially a non canard Kfir?
| SNECMA Atar 09C | Viper (as used in MB-326H) | 'Triple Viper' | |||
| Thrust | 41.97 kN (9,440 lbf) thrust dry, 60.8 kN (13,700 lbf) with afterburner | 15.2 kN (3,410 lbf) thrust | 45.6 kN (10,230 lbf) thrust - not sure about with afterburner performance but let's maybe say 58.8 kN (13,230 lbf) based upon the version used in the IAR-93 | ||
| Dry Weight | 1,456 kg (3,210 lb) | 249 kg (549 lb) | 747 kg (1647 lb) - without afterburner but lets say the afterburner adds another 250kg taking it all up to 997 kg (2198 lb) | ||
| Diameter | 1,000 mm (39 in) | 624mm (24.55 in) | 1270mm (50 in) - based upon cloverleaf arrangement |
Would that modification result in the Mirage III O becoming a Mirage III O-P [Phat] ? :smiley
Would that modification result in the Mirage III O becoming a Mirage III O-P [Phat] ? :smiley
Or how about Mirage III O-BS? (Based on a Juanita Franzi profile.)
Would that modification result in the Mirage III O becoming a Mirage III O-P [Phat] ? :smiley
Or how about Mirage III O-BS? (Based on a Juanita Franzi profile.)
Just realised that somewhere in the basement I have an Airfix Mirage IIIC, built about 50 years ago, that could be brutalised for the above idea.
Just realised that somewhere in the basement I have an Airfix Mirage IIIC, built about 50 years ago, that could be brutalised for the above idea.
Quick - someone call the authorities before this abuse occurs!!! :o
What if IAI improves Kfir with bits recovered from Lavi cancelled project?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Kfir_Lavi.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/a605ac96-ca9b-45d0-ada1-b54642e42afd)
Just a cool shot:
(https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2021_12/img_49-2_20.jpg.543eda9760ede7726fb942508509f7ad.jpg)
Rhodesian or Zimbabwean. IIIC's were going to be transferred from S Africa.
Just a photo:
(https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/dd3038e26a4d2744e307446a16184748)
Reengine with F-414 and life extend for another 40 years, see if we can keep them in service longer than the M-113! ;D
Seen on Facebook:
FICTIONAL Norwegian Fulgur (thunderbolt) Albert Weinberg design, from a 1980/81 comic book.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1204386950294493&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1204386950294493&type=3)
There was a plastic model in progress, starting with a Kfir / F-21 and an F-16 intake.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-W1ZxTWYAMojOC.jpg:large)
Unfortunately it got quashed at the last moment due to security concerns.
There is that. The intake is much further back than on F-107Seen on Facebook:
FICTIONAL Norwegian Fulgur (thunderbolt) Albert Weinberg design, from a 1980/81 comic book.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1204386950294493&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1204386950294493&type=3)
There was a plastic model in progress, starting with a Kfir / F-21 and an F-16 intake.
different though I would be worried about the engine getting starved at high AoA.
There is that. The intake is much further back than on F-107
What if Mirage III were not delta?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Mirage-19.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Mirage-19.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Rhodesian or Zimbabwean. IIIC's were going to be transferred from S Africa.
See here ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1742.75[/url]) for something close
What if Mirage III were not delta?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Mirage-19.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Mirage-19.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Super Mystere III?What if Mirage III were not delta?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Mirage-19.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Mirage-19.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Then it would be a Mystere . . . ;)
If it can inspire some, and following Greg suggestion for Japan (which start to gave me some idea ;D), I took a look in one of my Mirage III books and found this list of some Dassault's prospect for the Mirage III/5/50:
- Yugoslavia: May-1959 for some Mirage IIIC
- USA: Dec-1961, agreement signed with Boeing for a Mirage IIIW (Wichita) for a proposal for the F-5 program (won by Northrop)
- India: Jun-1961, proposal for 40 Mirage 5H/TH
- Jordan: 1965, 36 Mirage IIIE and B. Didn't happen and 10 years later, Mirage F-1 are ordered
- Myanmar: Nov-1965, interest for 8 Mirage IIIEL and 4 IIIBL similar to Australian IIIO/D. A/C will have been produced in Australia. "L" was first attributed to Myanmar by Dassault before the Lebanon order few years later.
- Belgium and Netherlands: 1966, Mirage IIINB (Nederland Belgique) common aircraft for both country based on Mirage 5 with J79 engine. Netherlands went for the F-5 and Belgium for the Mirage 5BA/BD/BR.
- Koweit: 1966, interest for 18 aircraft.
- Denmark: 1968, Mirage 5TK (dual seat), 5FK (single seat) and 5RK (recce). J35 was preferred
- Irak: 1968, order for 16 Mirage IIIEQ, 32 Mirage 5Q, 4 Mirage IIIDQ and 2 Mirage IIIRQ. Not produced as the first payment was not performed.
- Japan: not specifically targeted, but some demo flight were studied for the Universal exhibition of Tokyo in 1968 with a Mirage IIIE and IIIB. Except Tokyo, the return to France will have stopped in Singapore, New Delhi, Koweit City, Ankara and Athens.
- Qatar: 1971, Mirage 5AQ similar to Lybian Mirage 5D. Later evolved for Mirage 50 and then Mirage F-1 were ordered.
- Morrocco: Similar to Qatar.
- Sudan: 1977, order for 14 Mirage 50KDE and 2 Mirage 50KDD, similar to Chilian Mirage 50FC/DC with Agave radar and Atar 9K50. As for Iraq, not produced as first payment not performed.
- Angola: 1979, interest for Mirage 5.
- Austria: 24 aircraft preferred to the F-16/79 in 1980. in 1985, the country switched to used Saab Drakken.
- Portugal: 1985, interest for 20 Mirage IIIC and R. 1987, interest still present for 20 Mirage IIIR.
- Bolivia: interest for 10 used aircraft. T33 will be bought at the end.
All are listed in this reference :
([url]http://www.aerostories.org/~aerobiblio/IMG/arton4218.jpg[/url])
[url]http://www.aerostories.org/~aerobiblio/article4218.html[/url] ([url]http://www.aerostories.org/~aerobiblio/article4218.html[/url])
;)
If it can inspire some, and following Greg suggestion for Japan (which start to gave me some idea ;D), I took a look in one of my Mirage III books and found this list of some Dassault's prospect for the Mirage III/5/50:The list is missing Finland. In 1961, Finnish Air Force tested Mirage IIIC and Draken A, preferring the former to be acquired due to being a more finished product. Then, the Soviet Union abruptly changed their offering from MiG-19 (which had been ignored as obsolescent) to MiG-21F-13 and that was chosen by politicians instead.
The list is missing Finland. In 1961, Finnish Air Force tested Mirage IIIC and Draken A, preferring the former to be acquired due to being a more finished product. Then, the Soviet Union abruptly changed their offering from MiG-19 (which had been ignored as obsolescent) to MiG-21F-13 and that was chosen by politicians instead.Good to know, thanks for the information :D