Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on March 05, 2012, 02:34:21 AM
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Hi folks,
A thread dedicated to your P-51 Mustang and Derivates (that includes the A-36 and F-82) Ideas and Inspiration.
Regards,
Greg
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To begin with, the proposed Sea Mustang:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0005.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/SeaMustang1.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/SeaMustang2.jpg)
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Radial Engined derivatives:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0004.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0006.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0007.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0008.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0009.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0010.jpg)
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There's these
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This is such an awesome photo.
(http://www.ausairpower.net/Falcon-Evolution/MX-799-on-F-82-Twin-Mustang-1S.jpg)
A link GTX provided on the Falcon thread. (http://www.ausairpower.net/Falcon-Evolution.html#mozTocId351299)
Cheers,
Logan
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I've got this pic
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High-altitude interceptor version of a Mustang (basically a single-fuselage F-82):
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/WhIf/P-82-4.png)
Defiant-style turret:
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/WhIf/P-82-5.png)
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How about a "Twin Mustang" much like the "Twin P-40" that Curtiss mocked up - one fuselage with a solid nose (weapons fit optional) and two engine nacelles with the wing of the P-82? I suspect the fuselage would need lengthening to P-82 length and that could get interesting if you're starting from a razorback fuselage. Something along these lines is on my "to do" list.
Another thought, since the T-28 looks to have derived from that radial-engined Mustang concept, how about splicing bits of it and a P-51H together to do a tri-gear Mustang?
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High-altitude interceptor version of a Mustang (basically a single-fuselage F-82)
I wish it were that simple to make one in plastic. I have a 1/48th scale ModelCraft F-82 kit that I have been tearing up for quite some time now and getting very frustrated with it. Add to that the interest in setting it up with a nose wheel and all of the ingredients are present for one of those "FAIL" demotivational posters :(
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That radial version is very good looking. And USN blue, or FAA colours would make it even more pretty...
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Not-so-subtle "variant":
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/sequoiaranger/P-51X2Appaloosa01-r.jpg)
Custom V-16 engine, 5-bladed prop, wingtip rocket pods/fuel tanks, experimental (actual) camouflage.
I made this from a "single" P-82 twin-Mustang fuselage (larger and longer than a P-51), a "snap-tite" Mustang wing (about 1/64 scale, thus again slightly larger), F-89 "Scorpion" wingtip pods (what GENIUS decided to mix fiery rockets and fuel????), and Spitfire 22 prop (at the time I didn't want to try to "reverse" the props, so my fictional V-16 ENGINE defies American custom and rotates oppositely).
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What would a Mustang look like with a Seafire 47 wing and Griffon?
Would it fly??
If someone could do a profile, I'd love it!
Gofy
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While it's been done already in plastic by a couple people, I'd love to see an Allison-engined -D model. Why the -D rather than a bubble topped P-51A? Better proportions IMHO.
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How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38. The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger. What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?
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How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38. The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger. What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?
Or post war when production rights for the RR Merlin was withdrawn. An example of which is the F-82 Twin Mustang which in prototype and early production models did use a Merlin engines but later versions were powered by the Allison engines.
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What was the fee Rolls Royce charged per Merlin? IIRC, it was tremendously expensive.
And for the profile of the Allison D-model Mustang, Ron Cline's 1/48 ICM-based ''Joker" is the machine. :)
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Something I came across a while ago - a single F-82B was converted into a photo-recon RF-82B in the late '40s:
In flight trials:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0007-1.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0013.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0014.jpg)
Pod in construction:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0008.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0009.jpg)
With an without pics:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0010.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0011.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/scan0012.jpg)
Regards,
Greg
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That photopod is almost Steampunk.
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(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/1a35323u_0.jpg)
P-51 "Mustang" fighter planes being prepared for test flight near the North American Aviation plant in Inglewood, California.
Original Kodachrome transparency by Alfred Palmer for the Office of War Information from 1942.
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How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38. The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger. What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?
I had a bash ... but she's not much of a looker! Might it be simpler to adopt a Thunderbolt-style turbo system to the P-51?
BTW: as their starting point, these images used bits and pieces from various Gaëtan Marie profiles -- http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm (http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm)
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If you're going the P-38 route, you want to remove the oil coolers from under the engine sinc the P-51 has the oil cooler along side the radiator. You'll need a bit deeper cowl to add the intercoolers to the induction system, but not that much. I'd go with a side-mounted turbocharger (much like some Japanese attempts) rather than one on the bottom of the fuselage since that would require re-doing the engine and oil cooling systems (that just runs up development costs); though if you did take that approach of re-doing the cooling system, the new cooling system would likely best use wing root leading edge radiators to keep the drag increase down. I'd be in favor of anything that retains the P-51's design for producibility (complete fuselages and wings can be built up and fully checked out separately before mating and only the control interfaces then need checking) which is why I favor the side-mounted turbocharger or turbochargers.
Frankly, a redesigned Allison with a two-stage supercharger similar to the Merlin's would be a simpler solution and allows some interesting alternatives.
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A bit like this maybe
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Belated thanks to all for this interesting topic.
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Just a thought, how about a Mustang two-seat intermediate trainer with a Ranger, or Menasco, IV-12 engine replacing the Merlin? The canopy and cockpit arrangement would be the same as some of the field-mod two-seat conversions but totally different forward of the firewall and lacking the radiator and scoop. This could also be the lead-in design for a post-war touring aircraft similar to the Navion.
Along the same lines, how about a British-modified conversion trainer with a Dagger replacing the Merlin and elimination of the cooling scoop and radiator installation.
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Frankly, a redesigned Allison with a two-stage supercharger similar to the Merlin's would be a simpler solution and allows some interesting alternatives.
IIRC, Allison proposed just that to the Air Corps in the late '30s but was declined.
Here's a go at that 2-seat Mustang with a Ranger V-770. Evan: do you have any details on that Menasco IV-12? This time my starting point was Gaëtan Marie's 'Mustang Template' -- http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm (http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm)
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After Googling Menasco, it seems that their main production was I-4 (Pirate) and I-6 (Buccaneer) engines with some experimental air-cooled IV's that never went too far. The Ranger engine seems the best choice for now. Wasn't there an experimental T-6 variant with a Ranger or Menasco engine?
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After Googling Menasco, it seems that their main production was I-4 (Pirate) and I-6 (Buccaneer) engines with some experimental air-cooled IV's that never went too far. The Ranger engine seems the best choice for now. Wasn't there an experimental T-6 variant with a Ranger or Menasco engine?
That would have been the XAT-6E (derived from an AT-6D) powered by a Ranger V-770-9 (575hp) engine for trials. (Wikipedia - North American T-6 Texan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan)).
The Curtiss SO3C Seamew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SO3C_Seamew) was also powered by the Ranger V-770 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_V-770)
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After Googling Menasco, it seems that their main production was I-4 (Pirate) and I-6 (Buccaneer) engines with some experimental air-cooled IV's that never went too far...
That'd be the 2,000 hp XIV-2020-1 (aka MX-46). AFAIK, none were ever built but it was supposed to be a 2035 cid (6" bore x 6" stroke) V-12.
Related was the 3,400 hp Menasco XH-4070-1 (MX-110) H-24 of 4,071 cid (same bore and stroke as the XIV-2020). It wasn't built either. Still, these designs can't have been complete dogs since Wright planned to use Menasco IV-2020 cylinder banks (albeit bored out to 6.125") for their XH-4240 'hyper' engine.
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So I added several kits to my stash the other day, some helos and one that - as soon as I opened the package - regretted buying - the RoG 1/72 P-51D Mustang.
I was planning to use it to do a RCAF 442 Sqn bird, but the kit just looks too simple/awful to bother with for one of my RW builds.
So, I decided it's a perfect candidate for some whiffery, and I've got a pile of oldish decals of unusual roundels - Algeria, Kyrgyzstan, Jordan, Cambodia, Mexico, Congo/Brazzaville, Burma, Rhodesia, Lebanon, Venezuela, Thailand, etc etc... I've also got a Starfix T-38 kit I have no idea what I'll do with...
...anybody got any ideas they're willing to throw at me for these?
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That bad? Well, then I'd say that something suitable from that stack of unusual decals sounds about right, Kyrgystan and Cambodia would take the most creative backstory while most of the others could fit rather more easily. The Starfix T-38 kit probably should go to somewhere like Venezuela or Thailand would could use a good lead-in high performance trainer.
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Congo
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One I did a while ago:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/Floatstang.jpg)
Would require some sort of device to prevent too much water ingestion be the radiator intake on takeoff/landing.
Regards,
Greg
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Dear GTX,
forgetting panel lines and rivets, it is easy to find a solution for the radiator:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P-51TR6_azzzzt.JPG)
Thanks for the inspiration :)
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had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.
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had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.
:)
Do it!
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had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.
I acquired an Accurate Miniatures kit to do something like that with a P-51D.
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Hastily made with a FTB profile and part of one of GTX's DO-335s. Don't know what it is but I like it. What's the engine in this bird?
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had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.
I acquired an Accurate Miniatures kit to do something like that with a P-51D.
The P-51D gets a bit more problematical in that the D wing has a different Main landing gear mounting (it sits at a different angle from the P-51B/C) which also results in a larger swept-forward leading edge at the wing root to accomodate the altered gear geometry. This is where a lot of P-15B kits have an error, this inboard portion of the wing is not the same as that of the P-51D. I suspect the change was to lower the nose and improve the view after the changes from P-51A to P-51B raised the sit angle on the ground (P-51B wing is some three inches farther from the main fuselage datum on the P-51B/C as compared to the P-51/A-36/P-51A).
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Hastily made with a FTB profile and part of one of GTX's DO-335s. Don't know what it is but I like it. What's the engine in this bird?
Thanks Rafael for the inspiration. My versions are twin-engined: the rear engine is cooled by the ventral radiator, and the front engine is cooled by the nose annular radiator:
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Hastily made with a FTB profile and part of one of GTX's DO-335s. Don't know what it is but I like it. What's the engine in this bird?
The RR FTB was to be able to take any engine no matter what it's size or weight was (within reason), it was thought that a mid-engined arrangement would make it easier to do this than to try and convert an aircraft with the engine in the nose. This design came about because RR tried to fit the RR Griffon onto a Mustang just as they had converted a Mustang Mk.I to take a Merlin, but they came across some really big cg issues, like having to place nearly 300 lbs of ballast as far back in the tail as it would go. What with the heavier engine and all the ballast weight, it nullified any performance gained by the more powerful engine plus the structrual problems created by placing nearlyy 300 lbs in the tail.
So the original idea for the FTB (actually called the 'Private Venture Fighter') was be powered by a RR Griffon engine. Have a look at reply #4 in this thread and you'll see my two models I've made of the FTB/PVF, the camo'ed one is the Private Venture Fighter powered by a Griffon, the silver one is how the FTB would have looked like had it flown, with a Hawker Tempest tail. This model I've done being powered by the RR Crecy engine, a V-12 two-stroke sleeve valve arrangement.
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If you remove the ventral radiator etc, you could say it was an annular radiator cooled option.
Another option for the nose might be to borrow the spinner from this modified Spiteful that I did:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/sinspit2.jpg)
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A couple of Nighfighter variations on the P-51:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/p51b2a.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/p51b2mh.jpg)
Backseater in both cases operates radar.
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That two-seater:
Good Idea!
I made one in 1/48 almost identical to the drawing on the bottom (a RW aircraft, actually)---there was a war-weary "hack" two-seater P-51 that General Eisenhower flew in (as a passenger, with no parachute!) over Normandy to assess battlefield progress. My version was built in the 1980's to go with a Club project, so I have neither the original nor pictures.
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a hack used by the 435th Fighter Squadron, 479th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force.
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery/479g/j2-qbar.jpg)
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A couple of Nighfighter variations on the P-51:
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/p51b2a.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/p51b2mh.jpg[/url])
Backseater in both cases operates radar.
That's the approach I'm taking to a P-51B nightfighter with the radar pod from a F4U-5N on the starboard wing. Also considering an alternate approach with an additional underwing hard point on each side with the radar pod, podded similar to the P-38M radar, on one outboard hardpoint and either a third droptank or, say, a searchlight pod, on the other outboard hardpoint. I'm thinking a gloss black paint job with dark red letters and a dark red version of the 4th fighter group's paint scheme; definitely with appropriate "nose art" applied.
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V-tail version
Alex
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7218/7187090002_90168d1c6b_b.jpg)
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Now that is different!
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Thanks AXU, this is enriching the collection of V-tail Mustangs (page 89 of my free book "Virtual Mustangs"):
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And here is a comparison between new-style and old-style for the V-tail mustang:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/r_P-51TR6_azzzzv.JPG)
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Vietnam mobilized, and designed. Mustang with a gas turbine engine. (http://strangernn.livejournal.com/582170.html)
Takes a little about the Cavalier turbo mustang III, with several pictures.
(http://s004.radikal.ru/i206/1204/f9/5faeed1360bct.jpg)
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That's one odd looking machine.
(Non sequitur, but seeing that "(C) United States Department of Defense" tag there makes me laugh, since anything produced by an employee of the US Government in the course of his duties is automatically in the public domain...)
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Stepping back to the standard combat-ready Mustang II by Cavalier, I wonder how the extra hardpoints and tip tanks would look on a P-51B/C.
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The Dart powered Mustang III was always a gap filler by Cavalier for the engine they really wanted which was the Lycoming T55 (same engine as the H-47 which was upsized from the Huey’s T53). Cavalier sold the Mustang III on to Piper who were able to acquire a T55 and renamed the Mustang III with the right engine the Enforcer. If USAF had been enthused with the Mustang III (and they weren’t) then they could have supplied T55s from day one for a production combat ready plane. Piper were able to earmark $12 million ten years later for an Enforcer program but its time had passed.
(http://lae.blogg.se/images/2009/enforcer03_65697002.jpg)
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Stepping back to the standard combat-ready Mustang II by Cavalier, I wonder how the extra hardpoints and tip tanks would look on a P-51B/C.
Thanks to flight simulators, something like this:
(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o627/AGRA105/CavalierTF-51DFAB-522FuerzaAereaBoliviana1967.jpg)
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Thanks to flight simulators, something like this:
Ahh my bad, I see what you said. P-51B! or P-51C! With the razorback cockpit not a bubble cockpit.
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Thanks to flight simulators, something like this:
Ahh my bad, I see what you said. P-51B! or P-51C! With the razorback cockpit not a bubble cockpit.
Indeed!! Now that I think about it, I wonder how a war-surplus "Junkyard Dawg" might fall into their hands? Perhaps the 20mm cannon betting replaced with newer weapons of the same bore? That plus the rest of Cavalier's work could get may for a very interesting aircraft.
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Indeed!! Now that I think about it, I wonder how a war-surplus "Junkyard Dawg" might fall into their hands? Perhaps the 20mm cannon betting replaced with newer weapons of the same bore? That plus the rest of Cavalier's work could get may for a very interesting aircraft.
They could have converted bubble to non bubble so as to work in armoured glass side and rear view windows for the pilot.
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Indeed!! Now that I think about it, I wonder how a war-surplus "Junkyard Dawg" might fall into their hands? Perhaps the 20mm cannon betting replaced with newer weapons of the same bore? That plus the rest of Cavalier's work could get may for a very interesting aircraft.
They could have converted bubble to non bubble so as to work in armoured glass side and rear view windows for the pilot.
I could see that working. However, I was referring to my "Junkyard Dawg" concept outlined above, the P-51B/C with a Mustang I/P=51 wing with 4x20mm cannon. Be interesting to see that one worked over by Cavalier. 'Twould be an interesting "evolution".
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I could see that working. However, I was referring to my "Junkyard Dawg" concept outlined above, the P-51B/C with a Mustang I/P=51 wing with 4x20mm cannon. Be interesting to see that one worked over by Cavalier. 'Twould be an interesting "evolution".
You could have any number of desperate for combat aircraft users doing something similar from junkyards. Like Biafra, Rhodesia, Royal Laotian/Cambodian, Paraguay, etc. It doesn’t have to be a Cavalier project they could just be rebuilding P-51s as air to ground platforms and doing similar (convergent evolution). A Rhodesian Mustang II with MG151 20mm guns in the wing and Mini Golf bombs and Naplam under wing would be pretty cool. Kind of a super Lynx (Cessna 322s).
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Dominican Republic had B's, C's & D's all at the same time, so a Cavalier P-51B with Lycoming engine be a good item for them.
How about a Lycoming A-36 with tiptanks, rockets etc?
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the Corstang ....
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/00.shtm (http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/00.shtm)
(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/01.jpg)
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Oh wow, that thing is awesome!
Cheers,
Logan
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More complex turbine design, thanks to IL2Freemodding.. :)
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2481/pa48e.jpg)
and a video
PA 48 Enforcer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4aSoqZkzlE#ws)
that thing is a beast! :-*
S!
A1
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Wow!!!
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Nice Naval Enforcer ! I tried to do that with an old Idea Mustang kit but even the fuselage halves didn't fit together :icon_nif: I now have aspare Tamiya kit so may do it now .... any ideas on where to get a 1/48th contra-prop ?
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It may be off scale, but an Airfix Seafire 47?
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The only contra-prop that I know looks like that is on a Boeing F8B, now whether there's one on 1/48 scale I don't know
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While it's been done already in plastic by a couple people, I'd love to see an Allison-engined -D model. Why the -D rather than a bubble topped P-51A? Better proportions IMHO.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1238634340/Since+it%27s+April+Fool%27s+Day... (http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1238634340/Since+it%27s+April+Fool%27s+Day...)
From Hyperscale...
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(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s34/hobgrot/F52.png)
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Gofy, that's precisely the machine I had in mind. Ron's a great builder.
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Heavily armed American Welkin, at the first blush. But it fits right into that late war/post war twin fighters group like the F-82, Hornet, Tu-2 et al. :D
It really looks more like a high altitude machine than a tactical support type.
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Nice F-52!
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even better with a T-tail -- maybe 4 x 20mm in the nose (as well as the 16 x 50cals in the pods) as a bomber-destroyer.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s34/hobgrot/F522.png)
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([url]http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s34/hobgrot/F52.png[/url])
I have something similar in mind, without the wing gunpods, for a "first cut" P-82 based on a P-51B with stretched rear fuselage (taken from a F-82).
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After having a look at Airfix new tool 1/72 P-51D, I'll just have to toss the fabric wing variant onto the unsuspecting public. ;D ;D >:D ;D ;D
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After the F-52, the F-52F turned back to single engine, like a "normal" Mustang...
Thanks Raafif
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/F52f.JPG)
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(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s34/hobgrot/F524.png)
;D
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Wow! Even better! :-*
Uh... still North American F-52 or else: Blom and Vost Co. F-141? ;)
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Dear Raafif, it seems you have started a dangerous delirium process, wild as a Mustang and violent as a Tornado... ;)
Well, the F-52T-2 has been refused by USAAF, arguing that a Tornado is an odd phenomenon, so the number of engine must be odd (1 or 3 or 5...). North American engineers immediately proposed the 3-engined F-52U that was ordered for 10,000 copies. Alas, there were not enough engines available, and the order was changed to 5,000 F-52Z Twin-Tornado. Cancellation of this one too brought back to the famous F-82 Twin-Mustang, this is the true story of it (my psychiatrist does agree).
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/F52z.JPG)
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he he ;D I'm sure I've got another variation bubbling away in the brain-box but my voodoo shaman threatens to ban me from his offices if I bother him again in the next few days :icon_crap:
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Mindless play:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/51cormh.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/51cord.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/51cor.jpg)
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Thanks GTX. The radial D is not a dream though, I have seen its project in a magazine (APR?).
Concerning dreams, Raafif's ones went on nicely at http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.105 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=852.105)
and I add a twin with 2 pilots for very long flights:
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The radial-engine diameter could be the overall size for the fuselage, into streamlined 'improved' beauties...
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The wings off of a Plasticart Mil Mi-6 don't look half bad on a P-51 if anyone was thinking of doing a high-altitude variant. The wing root chords are pretty close. ;)
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Do you mean a High-Altitude 51 with the span of a P-82?
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^ The result would indeed be similar to (but not quite as extreme as) your HA-51D, Tophe. It also has the benefit of being quite in keeping with the planform of the original wing.
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Racing Twin Mustang! :-*
Based on the real Reno Racer "Precious Metal" (LINK (http://www.warbirdaeropress.com/articles/PMmods/PMmods.htm))
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t205/lobsterboyx/pM0461497c.jpg)
SOURCE (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3276654)
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This is a micture of mine, see http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/Fake_aircraft.htm (http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/Fake_aircraft.htm)
Your source robbed it without a mention...
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Just love where the guy on Something Awful claims he "lucky enough to see and hear precious metal twin fly".
Whatta maroon. :-X
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Allison engined variant on floats.
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Racing Twin Mustang! :-*
Based on the real Reno Racer "Precious Metal" (LINK ([url]http://www.warbirdaeropress.com/articles/PMmods/PMmods.htm[/url]))
([url]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t205/lobsterboyx/pM0461497c.jpg[/url])
SOURCE ([url]http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3276654[/url])
Most awesome 12 Thrashing Blades of pure Griffon roar.
The only change I would suggest is the left vertical stabilizer read "38L" and the right "38R". ;D
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I liked Tophe's pilotless Twin Mustang too!
http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/m1170005b.jpg (http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/m1170005b.jpg)
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Found this at the Fine Scale Modeler forums (click on image or html to view article):
F-82R (R for racer) Twin Mustang built by Howard Markel (http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/m/online/1522364.aspx)
(http://cs.finescale.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/13-49-00-00-01-52-23-64/08.jpg) (http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/m/online/1522364.aspx)
(Image source: Howard Markel via Fine Scale Modeler (http://cs.finescale.com/))
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Wow!
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Very cool, and also very funny as he's made the same mistake as was made with the original
XP-82: the props are rotating out, so they are rotating in and up in the center which, it turned out,
creates drag and stalls the center section of the wing. The result was that the XP-82 refused to fly.
;D
Swapping the handed engines around so that the props rotated in at the top cured the problem.
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My eyes see prop blades that are backwards and rotating down in the middle. 8)
Fun kit! And even better fact about the XP-82. I had no idea and had wondered since childhood why the props rotated like they did.
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the Corstang ....
[url]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/00.shtm[/url] ([url]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/00.shtm[/url])
([url]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/01.jpg[/url])
Hai! Are the Corsair wings that you drafted the same scale as the P-51 body their on? and how did you make that extra airscoop, right in front of the wings on the body?
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Has anyone built a 1/72 P-51 with Ram jets on the wing tips? Nicely done by Skyraider for the Japanese Secret Projects Dust Jacket.
(http://digitalaviationart.com/skyraider3d/gallery/slice_and_dice_1.jpg)
Source: Skyraiders 3D Digital Art.
The real thing:
(http://q-zon-fighterplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/North-American-P-51D-Mustang-Ramjets.jpg)
And Hasegawa had a 1/48 kit here (http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=7965). Built here (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=173946).
Would the propulsion engineers care to step in and make suggestions what they would look like in 1/72? Looks likes a simple tube but it does not have a constant diameter. Tapered front and back.
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Combine the ramjets with one of the Reno racers... >:D
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“Begin the Beguine”
http://www.airnews.co.za/march/article_march_the_beguine_story.html (http://www.airnews.co.za/march/article_march_the_beguine_story.html)
(http://www.airnews.co.za/march/beguine_4.jpg)
(tho actually these are the oil-coolers from the removed belly-scoop)
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Random idea: early P-51A or P-51B as RN FAA carrier fighter instead of Seafire.
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Random idea: early P-51A or P-51B as RN FAA carrier fighter instead of Seafire.
But configure the wing for 20mm cannon, such as used on the Mustang IA/P-51.
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P-51B 2-seater ......
pics here http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1367025970/This+P51+landed+today+at+Burbank+Airport.+Two+seater%21%21 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1367025970/This+P51+landed+today+at+Burbank+Airport.+Two+seater%21%21)
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P-51B 2-seater ......
pics here [url]http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1367025970/This+P51+landed+today+at+Burbank+Airport.+Two+seater%21%21[/url] ([url]http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1367025970/This+P51+landed+today+at+Burbank+Airport.+Two+seater%21%21[/url])
Cleaner conversion than the war-waery ones converted to squadron hacks during WW II. Debden Eagles has some good pictures and I believe one of the Czech conversion companies produces a new fuselage for this one. I'm thinking of mod'ing one as a night fighter, much as the 4th Fighter Group modified a P-51D (again, that same book has a picture of this one and it is the only place I've found it).
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As per back around Reply#38
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some really neat Twin Mustang schemes profiled by John Lacey 'maverick' ...
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A step back to Allison
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/P-51-40.jpeg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/P-51-40.jpeg.html)
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Interesting pic:
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7366/v0k3.jpg)
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This is something I've been working on lately, it'll have tricycle undercarriage -----
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This is something I've been working on lately, it'll have tricycle undercarriage -----
Robert, what are you going to use for your nose gear? I have been stumped on what to use for a similar project involving a ModelCraft F-82 Twin Mustang that would be built as a slightly larger Mustang using just one set of the fuselage parts. The inside of each fuselage half has slots for the horizontal stabilizers and I figured that was one option but the desire to have a tricycle landing gear arrangement with nose gear has me stalled.
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I'm using an F-86 nose gear and wheel Jeff, the fuselage I'm using is an F-51H which has a slimmed down cowling. I'm making a bulged lower half to the cowling to accommodate the u/c out of an F-84F nose wheel bay. The wing, although almost a dead ringer for a Mustang wing, isn't one --- ;) I've also gone with a smaller diameter prop just to make sure I have enough ground clearance, I'm using prop blades from the rear set of a Spitfire contra-prop
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I'm using an F-86 nose gear and wheel Jeff, the fuselage I'm using is an F-51H which has a slimmed down cowling. I'm making a bulged lower half to the cowling to accommodate the u/c out of an F-84F nose wheel bay. The wing, although almost a dead ringer for a Mustang wing, isn't one --- ;) I've also gone with a smaller diameter prop just to make sure I have enough ground clearance, I'm using prop blades from the rear set of a Spitfire contra-prop
Thanks for the guidance Robert, had not thought through far enough I suppose. The smaller diameter propeller blades are a great idea. The True Details PV1 Ventura Hamilton Standard propellers are already of a shorter length with that signature paddle blade and that would get you six blade to use on a different propeller hub/spinner.
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My idea is that Cavalier has a third go at trying to get an order from the USAF, figuring that tail-draggers just don't cut the mustard so decided to do a tricycle u/c job.
Here you can see the new underside of the cowling and how I've extended it under the wing.
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Just a thought, would the wing and nose gear bay of a T-28 work toward making a tri-gear P-51? I could see NAA, or Cavalier, working with what was readily available.
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I don't know Evan, I don't have a T-28 to work with. The wing I'm using comes from a Short Tucano which seems to have the spars in the same place as the F-51H wing. The chord is slightly shorter on the Tucano wing but my story is Cavalier designed an advanced wing for their new project.
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I don't know Evan, I don't have a T-28 to work with. The wing I'm using comes from a Short Tucano which seems to have the spars in the same place as the F-51H wing. The chord is slightly shorter on the Tucano wing but my story is Cavalier designed an advanced wing for their new project.
*chuckle* Then I'll need to try this one on my own. It could make for an interesting effort. Need to buy another 1/72 T-28, though. The one I have is destined to make an AT-28F.
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Interesting pic:
([url]http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7366/v0k3.jpg[/url])
According to http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/165/3/17 (http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/165/3/17) this Mustang went on USN trials aboard carrier CV-38 USS Shangri-La in 1944.
Second profile is a what-if a Mustang entered USN service. Both profiles are work of french illustrator Gaetan Marie http://www.gaetanmarie.com/ (http://www.gaetanmarie.com/)
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According to [url]http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/165/3/17[/url] ([url]http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/165/3/17[/url]) this Mustang went on USN trials aboard carrier CV-38 USS Shangri-La in 1944.
Yes, I was aware of that - here are a couple of photos of the real aircraft:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Escanear0003_zpscd84d95f.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/naval3_zpseefa1bfd.jpg)
And speaking of profiles, here is one by our very own Damian:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/FJ-1withdroptankVF-349_zpsaa4be1bd.png)
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If an aircraft was ever begging for a contra-prop it would be that one Greg. I think I'd like to build one using a Shackleton prop --
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You were saying…
(http://airpigz.com/storage/large/Precious-Metal-P-51-Green-Wings-On-Ground-No-Cowl.jpg)
(http://black-mamba.smugmug.com/Airplanes/Airplanes-Vol2/i-JH3z9kx/0/L/airshow%202006%20008-L.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/blPgAdm.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYJtp7FyL5Y8GVOa2OYeBF1cEnIPNm1hti3H8izProjIzXVO7H)(http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51survivors/images/HH87-1002.jpg)
BTW, all of these apparently used Shak' spinner/props.
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Yeap! I've got a High Planes kit of Precious Metal Greg, in 1/72 of course :P
But that is also a Griffon powered Mustang --
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Regarding carrier-based Mustangs, how about a carrier-based Twin-Mustang with wing fold just outboard of the nacelles and main landing gear trunnions?
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A question comes to mind for that Evan, where would you put the arrester hook ? Can an aircraft use 'two' hooks at the same time if it had two
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Well, now, I think you'd only want one, perhaps on a central nacelle, somewhat like the navalized P-38 proposals? I'm thinking two hooks, that far apart, could engage separately and induce some major loads into the airframe. Probably another reason a navalized P-82 wasn't given much consideration.
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A question comes to mind for that Evan, where would you put the arrester hook ? Can an aircraft use 'two' hooks at the same time if it had two
And if one hook breaks? The asymmetrical loads would rip the other hook off and spin the aircraft round. With a twin-Mustang, the best place would attached forwards, just behind the centre wing, attached to the fuselage on either side. It would have to be obviously a wide, V-shaped one which was also quite long, to reach down below the main under-carriage legs.
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A question comes to mind for that Evan, where would you put the arrester hook ? Can an aircraft use 'two' hooks at the same time if it had two
And if one hook breaks? The asymmetrical loads would rip the other hook off and spin the aircraft round. With a twin-Mustang, the best place would attached forwards, just behind the centre wing, attached to the fuselage on either side. It would have to be obviously a wide, V-shaped one which was also quite long, to reach down below the main under-carriage legs.
Pretty much in line with my thinking. Even if both hooks catch and hold, if they should happen to catch different wires, you're going to get quite asymmetrical loadings. Either that wide-V hook or my central "stinger" nacelle suggestion would work; I reckon it's a matter of weights, loads, and aerodynamics as to which was used.
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A question comes to mind for that Evan, where would you put the arrester hook ? Can an aircraft use 'two' hooks at the same time if it had two
And if one hook breaks? The asymmetrical loads would rip the other hook off and spin the aircraft round. With a twin-Mustang, the best place would attached forwards, just behind the centre wing, attached to the fuselage on either side. It would have to be obviously a wide, V-shaped one which was also quite long, to reach down below the main under-carriage legs.
Pretty much in line with my thinking. Even if both hooks catch and hold, if they should happen to catch different wires, you're going to get quite asymmetrical loadings. Either that wide-V hook or my central "stinger" nacelle suggestion would work; I reckon it's a matter of weights, loads, and aerodynamics as to which was used.
If it was British, it would be wide v-shaped hook and if it was American, it would be a central nacelle. ;)
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I think I like the pod idea, the V-Frame (they're really called an 'A-Frame') would be totally impratical (I'm looking at my F-82 as I write this). The pod would have to be built into the wing center section because hanging it down under the wing would serve no benefit as the wing trailing edge is close to the ground. I could see a radar pod being extended out the rear and built into the wing though.
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This is something I've been working on lately, it'll have tricycle undercarriage -----
Robert, what are you going to use for your nose gear? I have been stumped on what to use for a similar project involving a ModelCraft F-82 Twin Mustang that would be built as a slightly larger Mustang using just one set of the fuselage parts. The inside of each fuselage half has slots for the horizontal stabilizers and I figured that was one option but the desire to have a tricycle landing gear arrangement with nose gear has me stalled.
I like your F-82 idea Jeff, got another idea now. I went with the F-51H because it's a bigger aircraft than the P-51D (everyway except the wingspan) but an F-82 fuselage would be even better for a Griffon powered one which wouldn't have to be drastically changed like the real world Griffon Mustangs are. And I've got some spare F-51H wings left over ---- and a Supermarine Spiteful nose too ---
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What a Tri-gear Mustang would look like. There's something familiar with the look which I can't quite put my finger on at the moment ---
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Looks a bit like the Pilatus PC-7, to me. ;)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Pilatus.pc-7.fairford2006.arp.jpg/800px-Pilatus.pc-7.fairford2006.arp.jpg)
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I can see that, Wombat. There's a bit of YAT-28E in there for me, but I don't think that's all of it, either.
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/attack/at28e/at28e-3.jpg)
Cheers,
Logan
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Looks a bit like the Pilatus PC-7, to me. ;)
([url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Pilatus.pc-7.fairford2006.arp.jpg/800px-Pilatus.pc-7.fairford2006.arp.jpg[/url])
Can't the PC-7 be traced back to the ME109?
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It must be a long & twisted road! :-\
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What a Tri-gear Mustang would look like. There's something familiar with the look which I can't quite put my finger on at the moment ---
P-63 King Cobra?
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I think Logan has got it closer --- I keep going back to it and look again -- it's going to bug me now ---
But it's more the size of a Tucano than the PC-7 or PC-9.
Last year I got to stand right next to a T-28 at an airshow and that is a big aircraft for a trainer --
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Hmm, how about the XF2R Dark Shark? I think that's what might've been in the back of my mind.
(http://prototypes.free.fr/fr1/images/xf2r2_01.jpg)
Cheers,
Logan
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That's it Logan :)
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Yay! What do I win?
Cheers,
Logan
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;D ;D
But it's given me another idea, what about a Mustang with a turbo-prop at the front and a turbojet at the back using the radiator intake as the jet intake and exhaust like the Dark Shark
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;D ;D
But it's given me another idea, what about a Mustang with a turbo-prop at the front and a turbojet at the back using the radiator intake as the jet intake and exhaust like the Dark Shark
Suggesting such things on other forums might get a lynch mob looking for you by talking such heresy :)
Adding a jet engine to the Mustang would certainly take away the rather clean appearance it has aft of the cooling scoop. My own bent on such things is to just remove that huge scoop and try to install a turbine up front with a vent to one or both sides of the fuselage while adding in a nose wheel and well plus trying to change the location of the main gear so it can act like it is balanced on all three points instead of dragging the tail.
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I suspect a T-28 wing would do for the main landing gear change, but I may be mistaken.
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I will have to try and find a 1/72 kit of it Evan, just to find out. But I had thought the T-28 derived from the T-6.
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I will have to try and find a 1/72 kit of it Evan, just to find out. But I had thought the T-28 derived from the T-6.
Nope, nothing in common between the NA-16/T-6/SNJ and the T-28 aside from manufacturer
and role. The T-28 definitely shares some design DNA with the Mustang.
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The T-28 definitely shares some design DNA with the Mustang.
As one can see from pg 1 of this thread.
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Been doing some comparisons, I found that the P-51H wing is a bit different to the P-51D wing. Apart from not having the LERX, the whole leading edge is further forward from the main spar meaning it has a longer chords throughout. I found though, that the FJ1 Fury wing matches the F-51H wing and includes a LERX too, which is a bigger one than what the P-51D has. This would probably be a better option if I were to do another tri-gear P-51 as the wing already has the main gear in the right place.
I noticed that NA did quite a bit of re-positioning of parts when they designed the P-51H, the cockpit was raised up (about 6-8 inches) but the front of it remained the same distance from the rear of the spinner. However the rear fuselage was extended about 12" with the wing being moved back the same distance which gives the P-51H a longer nose look. I found this quite interesting ---
I've seen a few what-if's done with the F-82, making them as single fuselage versions. Jeff's idea of making his into a tri-gear is interesting but I think I'll make a couple of tail-draggers out of one of my kits. Only I'll use a Firefly Mk.IV nose on one of them (Griffon engine) and a Tempest Mk.I nose on the other (Sabre engine but converted to Sabre VII or VIII) but I'll shorten the rear fuselage a bit, so instead of being seven feet longer than a P-51D it'll be only about three and half feet longer. I'll use some P-51H tail planes as they are much bigger than the P-51D tail planes.
I've read that the F-82 outer wing panels were taken from the XP-51F/G (modified without u/c of course), and they also got used on the P-51H. Comparing the kit parts though, there's not very much the same about them, but sometime ago I had laid the Revell/Monogram parts over the 3-View found in 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' and saw that they matched very well.
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Some more interesting comparisons, while delving into the stash looking for something else, I stumbled onto my RoG boxing of the F-82. Doing some measuring and matching of parts with the High Planes P-51H reveals that the fuselages are quite similar. And interestingly, the vertical panel lines on the F-82 rear fuselage happen to be spaced at 3'-6". The cowling nose line from the spinner to the cockpit has the same slope and is the same distance from spinner to front of cockpit, and the rear fuselages slope back down to the fin at the same angle too. It's just that on the F-82 the slope continues further back and down. The radiator duct on both are very similar in size and shape and practically match one another in their location.
Studying on how to shorten the F-82 fuselage, it would seem to be quite an easy kitbash, just involves some careful 'Z' cuts to make it work.
Because I have a spare set of P-51H wings left over, I'll use them. But I'll have to extend the inner ends about 10mm so they will match the wing root fairing on the F-82. Which will be a bonus because the main wheels I want to use will be from a 'D' variant which are bigger than the 'H' variant. The F-82 wheels on the other hand are a bit too big for a single fuselage F-82.
Another interesting match-up is when I offered up my Hawker Fury Sabre Mk.VII engine front, the top of cowling slope matches the F-82's and the depth is almost bang on so fit up will be minimal fuss.
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Robert,
It is definitely nice to have all of those spare parts on hand to experiment like that?
Instead of trading out the F-82 MLG/wheels you could explain it away as an option for rough-unimproved airfield field or austere airfield operations where ground pressure would be a factor. Also for hauling extra weight in the form of ordnance might necessitate the need for larger tyres and wheels.
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Yes we could do it that way Jeff, but I think we would need a LERX to accommodate the wheel bay better
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I've been going back & forth with this tri-gear project and I've decided to abandon the Beechnut kit of the P-51H. Comparing it to the High Planes one, it appears to be not only the wrong shape but undersized too. So now I'm going to use the High Planes kit instead which is still available through their website (plus another manufacturer makes one too).
After doing my P-51H/F-82 comparison I've decided to use the nose of the F-82 for my tri-gear project as it has a much deeper underside to the cowling which will be better for the nose gear stowage. The nose I'll cut off the P-51H I'm going to drop in rubber and make some castings of it, then those will go on the front of the F-82 to make an 'XP-82' and a 'B' variant. I've also got a plan to use one of the castings I'll make for a Spiteful, that real project had three Spitfire MK.VIII's set aside for the development of it so what-if they used a Merlin instead of a Griffon for the Spiteful. I could see a Merlin Mk.130 being used ---
I've got a Monogram F-82 built, and I have a RoG boxing of it too, I also picked up a Modelcraft Hobbycraft boxing of it sometime ago which had a number of parts from it used on another project. Interesting thing about the Modelcraft Hobbycraft boxing, it has both propellers the same hand, not opposite like on the other two boxings. This could lead to an 'P-82A' variant but as none were built, figuring what the cowling looked like might be difficult. Of note is that although the two props are made for turning in the same direction, they actually made to turn the wrong way --
EDITED:
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Started with the P-82B conversion, now to make a mould and do some castings as I've got some other plans for the nose. I will then change this blue nose to do two other versions, P-82C & D and then an E. The C & D had exhaust stubs like the Allison nose and the E had a twelve stub exhaust system down each side.
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Here's a Norm Avery drawing that shows the fuselage changes from D to H.
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/P-51_PROFILES_AVERY_01.png)
- from North American Aircraft 1934 - 1998, Vol. 1, Norm Avery, Narkiewicz//Thompson 1998
Norm started at NAA in the '40s as a drafter, he later became a design engineer and retired from
aerospace in the early '80s, and was directly involved with the P-51H and P-82, amongst other
designs.
The H wing came from the XP-51F and it was a new design with a thinner airfoil, the use of
smaller diameter wheels enabled the elimination of the expanded wing root. The F and G led
to the H. A 5-blade Rotol was tested on the G, but it was found to be less efficient than the 3-blade
Aeroproducts also tested. With the Aeroproducts prop the XP-51Gs attained 498mph, making
them the fastest of all Mustangs. The J model used an Allison V-1710-119 but it never attained
the desired performance.
For the P-82 the wing chord was increased from 104 to 112 inches at the root, and from 50
to 65 inches at the tip.
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Working on a Griffon nose for the F-82, it has a higher thrust-line so the top of the nose is more horizontal, but allows for a bigger diameter prop.
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Funny, I was always led to believe that the F-82 was made from 2 stretched P-51H's.
Very cool thread guys, love the Navy and the racing 'Stangs.
Has anyone thought of one of the racing 'Stangs modded into a combat aircraft with AIM-9s etc?
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Well there was this one:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5090039001_82037784be_b.jpg)
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Suuuuuuuper cool 8)
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OMG!!! As Finsrin said, Suuuuuuppper cooool!!!!! 8) 8) 8)
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Funny, I was always led to believe that the F-82 was made from 2 stretched P-51H's.
That's what I've said in my posts further up, of note though is the position of the wings on both of them. The P-51H was moved 13" further back when compared to a P-51D, and then the F-82 wing (even though it has a broader chord) was moved another 12-13" further back (measurements taken from the engine bulkhead to the leading edge of the wings)
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Thanks for that Kitnut617!!! 8) 8) :D
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I've always had a plan to build a model of the XP-51F, G & J. The holdup has been adequate photos of the subjects plus trying to source a canopy to use without going to the extreme of scratch building one. But recently, I've come across items that helps solve both problems.
While re-visiting my 'Complete Book of Fighters' (Green/Swanborough) I discovered there are some photos of all three XP's which show quite clearly what they looked like in profile, and then I discovered that a canopy from an FJ-1 is very close to what I could use.
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Hi all,
I doubt there's an Official Answer, but do any of you have any idea as to what the in-service name for a Piper Enforcer would've been? Or would they have stuck with Enforcer?
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As far as I am aware, it would have just been Enforcer.
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While I was making a mould for my GB build I found I had mixed up a bit too much so I quickly put another mould box together to use the excess and made these noses for a P-82B
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GTX Admin
Radial Engined derivatives:
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0004.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0006.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0007.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0008.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0009.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/melbsyd/scan0010.jpg[/url])
What kind of engine was intended for this design?
How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38.
Where would you place the turbocharger?
What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?
It would produce a higher critical altitude, though depending on where the turbocharger was placed, it could lead either to excess bulk or a reduction in fuel capacity.
The British did actually analyze the idea of developing a RR Merlin with an integral turbocharger (which eliminates volume constraints), but they ultimately decided (if I recall), that the supercharger would be better
- The turbocharger would use a twin-staged arrangement with an intercooler: This variant would produce a higher critical altitude, probably a more linear increase in the turbochargers RPM with altitude, and only small losses of horsepower to drive the charger due to backpressure; regardless, thrust falls off at higher altitudes due to the speed of sound dropping at higher altitudes and the rotational velocity of the blades producing a loss of efficiency across the tips.
- The supercharger version as developed would be twin-staged, twin-speed, with an intercooler, aftercooler, and casing cooling as well: Though the supercharger would have a less linear increase in performance compared to a turbocharger, one could easily clutch to high speed at the critical altitude for the lower-speed setting and depending on the throttle position you'd maintain full pressure as you go; while some horsepower would be lost to drive the supercharger, the extra cooling would add more horsepower that the turbocharger design did not have, and no back-pressure would be present. All of these would come close to, or possibly offset the losses.
- Since superchargers do not tap off exhaust gases, those end up shooting out the pipes: With the pipes shaped properly, this can produce a thrusting effect; with manifold pressure kept at the max right on up into the high 20,000 foot range, the thrust increases as the air-pressure outside gets lower. Since the propellers are losing thrust at higher speed, this would recover some back.
If I recall, they ultimately felt the extra-cooling, and thrusting effect would offset the effects of the turbocharger with the exception of lower speeds at higher altitudes.
kitnut617
I really like the Mustang FTB derivatives
elmayerle
Frankly, a redesigned Allison with a two-stage supercharger similar to the Merlin's would be a simpler solution and allows some interesting alternatives.
Turns out they proposed exactly such a thing: I don't know why the USAAC rejected it
raafif
the Corstang ....
[url]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/00.shtm[/url] ([url]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/00.shtm[/url])
([url]http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal8/7001-7100/gal7073-Corstang-Miller/01.jpg[/url])
That is just genius, I've contacted the guy who created it: I'm asking some questions as I'd love to get a line-drawing of that made some-day.
Tophe
After the F-52, the F-52F turned back to single engine, like a "normal" Mustang...
Thanks Raafif
([url]http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/F52f.JPG[/url])
It's unorthodox, but it's absolutely fantastic.
Jeffry Fontaine
Found this at the Fine Scale Modeler forums (click on image or html to view article):
F-82R (R for racer) Twin Mustang built by Howard Markel ([url]http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/m/online/1522364.aspx[/url])
([url]http://cs.finescale.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/13-49-00-00-01-52-23-64/08.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/m/online/1522364.aspx[/url])
(Image source: Howard Markel via Fine Scale Modeler ([url]http://cs.finescale.com/[/url]))
Looks like it'd be fun to race around, and considering the design has no second canopy, I could imagine that it not only could fly faster; one could stuff a lot of fuel in there...
BTW: This is a batch reply (I haven't been on this site very often, and saw some very interesting ideas and responded to them, as well as provided what I assume to be constructive critique)
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Super F-82 racer!! 8) 8)
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Something different…and maybe inspiration for an upcoming GB ;): F-82 Twin Mustang armed with four Firebird AAMs
(http://www.ausairpower.net/Falcon-Evolution/MX-799-on-F-82-Twin-Mustang-1S.jpg)
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Wow GTX ! 8) 8)
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How about a P/F-51D night fighter with wing mounted radar ( as seen on Hellcats or perhaps Fireflies with a pod on each wing)
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How about a P/F-51D night fighter with wing mounted radar ( as seen on Hellcats or perhaps Fireflies with a pod on each wing)
or something similar for a two-seat P-51B conversion (why, yes, I've got the bits and pieces for that one in 1/72 and, with a bit more scratchbuilding, in 1/48). You want something different, the book Debden Eagles has a picture of a two-seat P-51D, with a split rear canopy and almost German-style antennae (think Fw190A8/R11) on the righthand wing.
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Did anyone mention using the longer F-82 fuselage to make a "conventional" single engined fighter? Maybe put a Griffon on it, instead of one of the small engines?
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Did anyone mention using the longer F-82 fuselage to make a "conventional" single engined fighter? Maybe put a Griffon on it, instead of one of the small engines?
Have a look at reply #153, port side has a Griffon engine/cowling from a Firefly Mk.IV/V. It basically just drops in to the Allison engined F-82 shape
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Did anyone mention using the longer F-82 fuselage to make a "conventional" single engined fighter? Maybe put a Griffon on it, instead of one of the small engines?
Did this profile a couple of years ago:
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/ChernayaAkula/WhIf/P-82-4.png)
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:)
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Did anyone mention using the longer F-82 fuselage to make a "conventional" single engined fighter? Maybe put a Griffon on it, instead of one of the small engines?
Did this profile a couple of years ago:
Oh YEAH!
That is close to what I was thinking - and you found a role for it too. Makes (enough) sense to me.
Anybody crazy enough to use the fuselage mounted landing gear and only put outriggers on the wings? ;D
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Did anyone mention using the longer F-82 fuselage to make a "conventional" single engined fighter? Maybe put a Griffon on it, instead of one of the small engines?
An idea I have toyed with over the years was to take the inside fuselage halves of the ModelCraft 1:48th scale F-82 and join them together as a single fuselage and then mate that assembled fuselage to the wing of an A-10. The wrinkle in that idea is that an A-10 wing in 1:48th scale is a bit too large but the 1:72nd scale wing from the Monogram A-10 might work. Filling in the void created where the radiator scoop was located and you have yourself a tail-dragger with a very different look. If you can somehow make a nose gear well to fit inside the engine cowling you could convert it to a tricycle gear arrangement but with that conversion the main landing gear would have to be moved back a bit to correct the center of balance/center of gravity issues that come with that change.
Using the inside fuselage halves of the F-82 gives you the slots for your horizontal stabilizers otherwise you have to cut new holes in each of the outside fuselage halves.
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Just use the A-10 main gear for a tricycle version.
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The latest issue of Warbirds International: Mustangs has an article on tests with ski-equipped fighters with, of course, emphasis on the testing with a pair of P-51A's. The P-51 seems to have fared the best overall, not being particularly deficient in any of the test categories (other fighters - the also tested the P-36, P-38, P-39, P-40, and P-47 - may have excelled in one area, but the Mustang wasn't behind by much, if at all, in any category). In any case, the tested retractable ski landing gear was never adopted, but I could see ski-equipped Mustangs in Swedish or Finnish winter camouflage (the Finnish ones perhaps being captures Soviet examples?). The article does have enough pictures that an accurate model of the installation could be made.
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How'd they manage the retraction thing on the P-51?
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How'd they manage the retraction thing on the P-51?
The skis tuck up to the fuselage right cleanly, both the mains and the tail ski. The article has pictures of the aircraft in flight with the skis retracted. A more developed version might put a touch of fairing on the top of each main ski to eliminate a cause of turbulence-induced drag, but more doesn't seem needed and the performance and handling did not suffer too much (speed loss of 18 knots or so) according to the article. The main skis attach to the main gear leg with a linkage to turn them, keeping them parallel to the airflow; the article has good pictures of both the ski and the linkage as installed on the ground, also has good pictures of the tail ski setup.
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performance and handling did not suffer too much (speed loss of 18 knots or so) according to the article.
Even 18 knots can be considered significant.
By the time P-51 was in service, the Finnish air force had abandoned the use of skis on fighters. Ploughind and/or rolling the bases made more sense.
Even Brewster Buffalos, which were not all that hot by that time, were used with wheels and there was no attempt to put skis on Bf 109s. Not worth the trouble, especially with the degradation of performance.
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That was 18 knots in the experimental configuration with no attempt at drag reduction; the speculation was that proper fairings would reduce that considerably. Still, that was for the Allison-engine version and I don't know whether the installation would have been quite as clean on the Merlin-engine version since part of the ski recess is forward of the firewall (on the P-51A, it used space/volume made available by removing the nose guns).
While the Finns didn't, I know the Germans experimented with ski-equipped Bf109s, but the performance cost for the fixed skis was definitely unacceptable and the effort never went any farther.
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While the Finns didn't, I know the Germans experimented with ski-equipped Bf109s, but the performance cost for the fixed skis was definitely unacceptable and the effort never went any farther.
And the Fw190...
(http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/News%20Stories%20K/Any%20Thing%20But%20Wheels/SkisandFloats107.jpg)
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You can see the P-51 (and other platforms) on skies etc here: http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/494/Anything-But-Wheels.aspx (http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/494/Anything-But-Wheels.aspx)
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I mentioned this in the Physical Models thread on a beautiful Cavalier Turbo-Mustang III, how about that conversion applied to a P-51B/C airframe, but done with a Mustang I wing with the 20mm cannon, only replace the Hispano cannon with post-war Browning M39 20mm cannon such as carried by the F-100 et al. Mayhaps give it a Malcolm Hood, too.
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I mentioned this in the Physical Models thread on a beautiful Cavalier Turbo-Mustang III, how about that conversion applied to a P-51B/C airframe, but done with a Mustang I wing with the 20mm cannon, only replace the Hispano cannon with post-war Browning M39 20mm cannon such as carried by the F-100 et al. Mayhaps give it a Malcolm Hood, too.
Or an A-36T? Malcolm Hood would look good on that too, I do like the cannon though.
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Proposed Turboprop P-51:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Mustang_turboprop_zpsc7s0t8gd.jpg)
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Why worry about rubber wheels and/or masking thereof?
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/GTX_Christmas/8b09542v.jpg)
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/GTX_Christmas/Wooden_wheels_are_attached_to_a_P-51_quotMustangquot_fighter_plane_so_it_may_be_moved_around_the_ramp_at_the_Inglewood..._-_NARA_-_195491.jpg)
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OK what's the story on that?
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... Wooden wheels are attached to a P-51 "Mustang" fighter plane, so it may be moved around the ramp at the Inglewood, California plant of North American Aviation, Incorportated. When it is ready for flight tests, regular landing wheels with rubber tires will be substituted...
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/oem2002005889/PP/ (http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/oem2002005889/PP/)
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What he said
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I enjoy the fact that it says "Do Not Inflate" on those wooden wheels.
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I enjoy the fact that it says "Do Not Inflate" on those wooden wheels.
Kinda reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iypRShb64cg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iypRShb64cg)
;D
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"Graffiti Gal " :)
(http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u455/mam121061/P-51/10000%20P-51D_zpsmgxe5sff.jpg)
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You leave your plane in some places and look what happens...
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Bl--dy kids :o
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Awesome pic! Any particular story behind or just too much spare time?
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It was celebrating a milestone in production, or even the last one produced. Can't remember which --
Bit later: OK, checking on the internet it was the 10,000th P-51 built, a P-51D, and everyone on the production line signed their name on it.
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Odd thought, the USAAF wanted to get Merlin-powered Mustangs into the air as soon as possible, so commissioned the reworking of P-51s, P-51As, and A-36s along the lines of the XP-78 to produce XP-78As, Bs, and Cs respectively.
Another thought would be an aircraft reclamation center in England gets a P-51 with a trashed fuselage and a P-51B/C with a trashed wing and mates the good portions to produce a cannon-armed, Merlin-powered P-51. It flies with no serial number and has "Junkyard Dog" nose art.
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Odd thought, the USAAF wanted to get Merlin-powered Mustangs into the air as soon as possible, so commissioned the reworking of P-51s, P-51As, and A-36s along the lines of the XP-78 to produce XP-78As, Bs, and Cs respectively.
Another thought would be an aircraft reclamation center in England gets a P-51 with a trashed fuselage and a P-51B/C with a trashed wing and mates the good portions to produce a cannon-armed, Merlin-powered P-51. It flies with no serial number and has "Junkyard Dog" nose art.
I wonder if that could have worked in RW.
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Desert Air Force received a couple of dozen P-51 but unfortunately through sabotage or incompetence their engines are completely ruined by contaminated lubricants. Fortuitously the RAF had recently received a batch of spare Merlin XX for their Hurricane IIs, which, due to an unfortunately high number of write offs were not all needed. In fact the written off Hurricanes became another source of Merlin XX for the ingenious re-engining program developed by the Desert Air Force.
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Odd thought, the USAAF wanted to get Merlin-powered Mustangs into the air as soon as possible, so commissioned the reworking of P-51s, P-51As, and A-36s along the lines of the XP-78 to produce XP-78As, Bs, and Cs respectively.
Another thought would be an aircraft reclamation center in England gets a P-51 with a trashed fuselage and a P-51B/C with a trashed wing and mates the good portions to produce a cannon-armed, Merlin-powered P-51. It flies with no serial number and has "Junkyard Dog" nose art.
I wonder if that could have worked in RW.
The XP-78 illustrates that it could be done at the factory as I described and, as for "Junkyard Dog", the wing and control interfaces with the fuselage are identical (the wing mounts to the fuselage with four large bolts, same as the Learjet wing) and I don't see any reason it couldn't be done.
Doing the mod in the field would be more problematical and require significant tin-bashing to get proper cowlings and you would still have the old radiator scoop. Still, if someone had data on the XP-78/P-51B, you could do it (not sure how well, but you get the fascinating field mods - I know, try using an aircraft returned from the field as a testbed).
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Does this photo resemble the "Junkyard Dog"? Its a re-engined Mustang IA to create an P-78 /XP-51B.
(http://www.aero-web.org/images/scaled/aec01846.jpg)
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As you say it was an XP-51B, the 'bulged' lower cowling created airflow problems to the radiator duct intake though, North Americans solution to that was to lower the wing 3" and straighten out the lower cowling (from the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust book, 'Rolls Royce and the Mustang')
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Does this photo resemble the "Junkyard Dog"? Its a re-engined Mustang IA to create an P-78 /XP-51B.
([url]http://www.aero-web.org/images/scaled/aec01846.jpg[/url])
Junkyard Dog would have the deeper fuselage of the P-51B/C but with this wing. This re-engining, possibly with some fairings added to the bulge for the intake to smooth flow into the radiator would do for some hastily done P-78s to get Merlin-powered Mustangs into action ASAP per my original thought.
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In the RRHT book Rolls Royce and the Mustang, it says because of the delay getting Packard up to speed, they had made plans to mass produce the Mustang X. They put in place an order with North American to supply Mustang Mk.I airframes (500) sans the engine/cowling/other equipment. Rolls Royce would have done the conversion at one of their satellite plants and it would have looked like this below
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Odd thought for post-war; early model Mustangs with the early Allison engine and three-bladed prop replaced by the later Allison engine and four-bladed prop of the F-82, possibly with the P-51B/C radiator installation. Not sure if 'twould work, but 'twould be attractive.
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Here are some more FTB images:
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13522850_10206644448731386_5331320835587851444_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13533241_10206644448651384_7306172830730301727_n.jpg?oh=4c64019cd6c823210efeaef983d64ad9&oe=57C24C37)
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13524414_10206644449051394_7432525289901198672_n.jpg?oh=87a7bce5971572407a4b3a011c6ce07b&oe=57F3854A)
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13516507_10206644449011393_2502376869976030396_n.jpg?oh=eaafb06319cb84cee16484906e5d10a3&oe=5802EA48)
Source: Facebook World War 2.5 (an alternate 1946/1947)
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The FTB Mustang looks brilliant 8) :P
Sorta prop powered F-86 ;)
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I wish someone would do a 1/48 FTB conversion/kit
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I wish someone would do a 1/48 FTB conversion/kit
Ask Igor at Unicraft, He did the 1/72 conversion.
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Unicraft...
(https://canwehaveapooldad.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/02-18b-homershudder.gif)
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I know Greg but it is the cross we need to bear if you want it. Maybe Uncle Les or Frank3k can sketch one up for you for resin or 3D print?
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There's a 1/72 FTB Mustang available?? COOL 8) 8
Unicraft, I go and have a look for it :)
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My two I've built, top pics are of the Private Venture Fighter as proposed with three cannon, and the bottom two are of how the Flying Test Bed would have appeared had it gone into production. I've modelled it as having the RR Crecy engine installed with the exhaust augmenter turbine
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Robert:
Pictures of your builds are on the Facebook page World War 2.5. I did not see the source (you) being credited.
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Thanks Carl for the heads-up, I'll look into it --
Off-topic a bit, but I think someone on one of the forums I frequent is responsible, just recently I was looking for a cut-away or 3-View which shows where the fuel tanks were on a FJ-1. I had looked at whatever wiki had on it's page on the FJ-1 but nothing was there except a note on how much it carried internally and in wingtip tanks, but eventually I found a 3-View after a lot of searching. I posted it here in the thread I had started, then later I was doing some other searching about the FJ-1, went into the wiki page and low and behold, there's the 3-View I found now on the wiki page ----
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Very cool models Kitnut!! 8) 8) Now I wonder what a navalised version with the cockpit raised a bit would look?
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More FTB data:
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13735051_10210165560204637_3123845381261724834_o.jpg)
Source: Facebook The Greatest Planes That Never Were
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More FTB data
Use that term loosely with this drawing... ;)
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That cutaway has just cropped up on the Secret Projects Forum done by Motorcar. I don't know where he got the 'cuffed' prop blades from because they don't appear in any photo or sketch of the FTB (or PVF). There is also photos of the actual parts for the forward fuselage and cockpit floor which he could have quite easily incorporated into his cutaway. There's a very good drawing of how the drive shaft was to be made in the RR Heritage Trust book "Rolls Royce and the Mustang", so that could have been done a lot more accurately too. Justo Miranda's 3-View is quite good but even that has weird looking prop blades, which Igor (at Unicraft) had copied.
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Unicraft...
([url]https://canwehaveapooldad.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/02-18b-homershudder.gif[/url])
Unicraft...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ZacYates/image3_zpspphvajnq.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/ZacYates/media/image3_zpspphvajnq.jpg.html)
:) :)
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An unusual development of the F-82 Mustang:
(http://orig12.deviantart.net/cecd/f/2012/254/b/c/north_american_a_51_____stallion_____by_bispro-d5ee4fe.jpg)
When World War II ended, the venerable wartime North American Aviation P-51 Mustang spawned the twin-fuselage F-82 Twin Mustang. But history almost forgot the way the F-82 was in turn reworked in the form of a twin-boom, high tail attack plane, the A-51 Stallion, sort of a cross between a P-38 Lightning and NAA's later Bronco.
Like the string of other attack prototypes that appeared at the same (see the rest of this gallery) the A-51 program was dropped when the attack mission was abandoned by the newly formed U.S. Air Force, and only three YA-51 aircraft were built.
[Source (http://bispro.deviantart.com/art/North-American-A-51-Stallion-326504426)]
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(http://orig15.deviantart.net/5320/f/2012/273/2/5/north_american_a_51_____stallion_____plan_by_bispro-d5ged4b.jpg)
[Source (http://bispro.deviantart.com/art/North-American-A-51-Stallion-plan-329874923)]
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A-51. One of the most credible appearing of the photo art aircraft :)
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Oh yes. Stéphane's A-51 is a good one.
I think he still has the main landing gear too much forward. Cannot keep the nose wheel down, as is.
I think there's larger images in his DeviantArt gallery:
http://bispro.deviantart.com/gallery/24200217/Aviation (http://bispro.deviantart.com/gallery/24200217/Aviation)
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Fascinating --- DeviantArt gallery is a trove of kitbashing inspiration !
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Oh my, yes. Love the stallion :-*
Off to the stash, got to see what the center pod can be built from...
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That A-51 is freakin' AWESOME 8) 8) 8) 8) Gotta build one!! How about a 1/72 scale Stallion group build :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Oh my, yes. Love the stallion :-*
Off to the stash, got to see what the center pod can be built from...
Some early jet?
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I'm totally building that. I did a Monogram 1/72 F-82 OOB that's begging to be rebuilt! Definitely moving the mains.
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I think if I were to build that A-51, I would delete the radiator ducts from where they are, and put a single bigger one in the center pod with a larger variable duct exit for more thrust ----- >:D
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...thus making a more logical space for the mains! Genius! I was wondering what to do with those pesky rads.
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The main gear would be better between the two wing spars, like how I did my TwinSabre
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If you want to keep the doghouse radiators, they get in the way of doing that. This thing needs more separation between the fuselages than a P-82, so there's probably room for regular P-51 landing gear on the wing and central pod...
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If you don't want to do the swept vertical tails with high tailplane, just take a F-82 and splice a P-51H fuselage, modified as desired, into the center of the wing and splice the horizontal tail as needed to extend it. For one big radiator/oil cooler set up, use one from a 1/48-scale kit (assuming you are working in 1/72 for the base kits). For a tricycle-geared aircraft, the main gear as depicted is definitely too far forward unless you have a very heavy nose armament fitted to balance those long rear fuselages; I'd be tempted to go with leading edge radiators and oil coolers and move the main gear aft.
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F7F Tigercat nose with P-51 or F-82 glazing, rear of the center pod from some engine pod?
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To me the center pod reminds me of an F-80 ---- as a bonus you'd have a nose gear already in place ---
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Good thinking, kit! I like it. I wouldn't be doing a high tail.
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:-*
(https://cdna0.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/002/747/072/large/shane-molina-p-51-mustang-turret-artstation.jpg?1465249117)
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kzeYK (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kzeYK)
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:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Agreed!! Awesome!! :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Subtle whiff: what about a P-51D (or latter variant) with twin 20mm cannon in each wing? I'm not talking about the long barrelled versions though but rather the short barrelled versions as seen in the Hawker Tempest etc. Maybe as an Australian derivative?
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Subtle whiff: what about a P-51D (or latter variant) with twin 20mm canon in each wing? I'm not talking about the long barrelled versions though but rather the short barrelled versions as seen in the Hawker Tempest etc. Maybe as an Australian derivative?
I like that idea Greg, but I still think they would stick out a bit, like an MB5. Thinking about it though, the MB5 did have the short barreled 20mm's, but the wing is much bigger than a P-51D's, it's more the size of an F-82 outer wing --- Actually it's almost a dead ringer for a Hellcat wing, that's from the fold hinge point to the wing-tip
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Odd thought - Luftwaffe re-engines a captured P-51B or P-51D (kinds like the aesthetics of the "B" better) with a DB601 or DB605, much like they did that Spitfire V, for comparison purposes.
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Subtle whiff: what about a P-51D (or latter variant) with twin 20mm cannon in each wing? I'm not talking about the long barrelled versions though but rather the short barrelled versions as seen in the Hawker Tempest etc. Maybe as an Australian derivative?
Brilliant and believable as the Hispano cannon was produced in Australia for the Boomerang while the .50cal HMG was imported.
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subtle whif: P-51B/C with the louvered lower cowling of a Mustang IV and in SEAC markings.
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A-36 with Merlin and 20mm cannon, wait a minute I'm sure I've suggested this before.
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Don't know if anyone has thought of this earlier in this thread but how about North American making a concept aircraft for the Twin Mustang based on two P-51a's. Standard length fuselage but all the rest much the same.
Just to see how the idea would work out.
Lessons learned would lead to the F-82.
Jim
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(https://66.media.tumblr.com/8a54d3cc044d1f2de1005224f0259800/tumblr_ntyaocSf0k1qf71bqo1_500.gif)
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Awesome little vid GTX, I approve 8)
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F-82 with Griffon engines and contra props.
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Or with T56 !
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F-82 with Griffon engines and contra props.
Possible, but little point to the contra-props, however 5-blade props on 'tother hand ... ;) :icon_fsm:
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Or with T56 !
Too long and skinny, Proteus would look better.
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Or with T56 !
Too long and skinny, Proteus would look better.
Good call.
Yes, is shorter, I agree.
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F-82 with Griffon engines and contra props.
You were saying --- the port side fuselage has a Griffon and contra-prop, cowling from a Firefly Mk.V (which just happens to fit very well)and Shackleton contra-prop
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I recall this one now. Good stuff!
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I still want to do a pilotless drone with a shaved off canopy and winglets.
As to the ordnance carried? Who knows. Twinkies maybe.
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If the target is my mouth, then yes please. ;D
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I still want to do a pilotless drone with a shaved off canopy and winglets.
I like your kind of evil!
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(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18359503_1750368854989791_2399252679188207682_o.jpg?oh=8691c9f2434d3e83b129d76df37810c1&oe=59C2FB5A)
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Cool. What's the story behind it?
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http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1293 (http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1293)
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Posted on Facebook. War Weary P-51B with 2nd seat.
(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20882718_1642652719109392_5594680448582652844_n.jpg?oh=a68a1efe1a45bce824a2bf9e7bf7db2d&oe=5A1CE6FE)
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Whilst I have seen American P-51s with rockets I don't think I have seen a RAF one until now:
(https://yooniqimages.blob.core.windows.net/yooniqimages-data-storage-resizedimagefilerepository/Detail/21631/8d335137-c28c-4b9a-8ec5-b8111465afde/YooniqImages_216312994.jpg)
(https://yooniqimages.blob.core.windows.net/yooniqimages-data-storage-resizedimagefilerepository/Detail/21631/3b879309-328e-48f8-8a5b-17b6ce4567e2/YooniqImages_216312992.jpg)
(https://yooniqimages.blob.core.windows.net/yooniqimages-data-storage-resizedimagefilerepository/Detail/21631/9334bc18-131f-4340-bb08-76d9c36819ee/YooniqImages_216312993.jpg)
(Source) (https://yooniqimages.com/images/detail/216312994/Creative/north-american-mustang-i-ag357)
I have certainly not seen a version with 40mm cannon either until now:
(https://yooniqimages.blob.core.windows.net/yooniqimages-data-storage-resizedimagefilerepository/Detail/21631/8da6230a-7bbb-4cde-9c2b-7d1b5850b705/YooniqImages_216312996.jpg)
(Source) (https://yooniqimages.com/images/detail/216312996/Creative/north-american-mustang-i-am106)
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Excellent find Greg. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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Somewhere over the years I've seen a picture of a RAF Mustang with rocket rails in an "H" pattern on each hard point. I disremember where I saw that, though; I'd suspect either the old "Camouflage and Markings" booklet on RAF Mustangs or the series on Mustangs in the old Scale Modelworld magazine. I know the C&M booklet on RAF Mustangs has a picture, each, of both the four individual rails under each wing and the S-gun under each wing.
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Sometime ago I built a P-47 with British RP rails. The P-47 in Action book shows an arrangement although it's just a drawing. It sort of insinuates that the RAF Thunderbolts used them. I had written to the RAF Museum to see what info they had on them and I bought a copy of what they had. Unfortunately nothing about Brit RP's though.
I'm going to build one of my Mustang Mk.1's like that pic you found Greg.
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Nice build Robert.
I also like the P-51 with the S-guns.
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Thanks Carl --
I have to say I've not found any photographic evidence that P-47's carried RP rails this way. There's some photos of RAF P-47's carrying the tanks I've put on the model though.
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I like these markings. Easy build.
(https://yooniqimages.blob.core.windows.net/yooniqimages-data-storage-resizedimagefilerepository/Detail/21631/875a70ce-47a1-4a4d-8af0-5775a2a889cd/YooniqImages_216312990.jpg)
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one of the most recent issues of Mustangs International has a unique limited-run Mustang variant that could cause severe JMN confusions. The "NA-106" had the "D" wing but was built with the razorback fuselage and plans to convert it to a bubble canopy later; I could see the mix of six wing guns with a razorback fuselage causing some screeching from purists until you provided documentation.
I still stand by my pure whif idea of a salvaged "B" or "C" fuselage mated a salvaged 4-cannon wing from an Allison-powered Mustang to make a one-off "Junkyard Dog".
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Weren't no razor-back Mustangs, only P-47s. ;)
When did people start referring to the original Mustang fuselage profile as 'razorback'?'
it's neither humped in profile nor sharp in cross-section. To me it's always been P-51(A, B, C)
and bubble-topped D, with no reference to profile necessary on anything other than the D.
I've even seen it used in reference to Spitfires!, which is truly incorrect, Spits are normal
and low-back/cutdown for the bubble canopy versions.
The term is really only correct for the pre-bubble P-47s as the canopy fairing was indeed
humped in profile, along with being sharp in cross-section, another inheritance of its P-35
grandparent.
Anyhow, as to the bird in question, other sources, including NAA order number/production lists,
refer to order number NA-106 P-51D, no block number, (not P-51D-1, none of that block were built)
as being two NA-102 P-51B, 42-106539 and -106540, the two aircraft mentioned in the article, modified
to test the new canopy installation, the only mods were those required to mount the bubble canopy and
new windscreen. No D-wing or six-gun modification is mentioned.
The first aircraft modified to the bubble canopy was NA-102 P-51B 43-12102, however it was not
against order NA-106.
Having looked at the, single, photo of -106540 from the article (it's available at their site), I'm not
convinced that their statement that it shows a three gun right wing is correct. It appears to
show the shorter ammo bays, as standard on the B/C, not the longer ones as fitted to the D. Now is
it possible that they trialled a three-gun installation? Sure, however that wouldn't require a
three-gun wing. Also the wing really isn't clear enough in the image to make that determination.
I think they're creating a mystery where none exists, I believe it's simply a photo of 42-106540
before it was modified to bubble canopy configuration.
NA-102 P-51B/D 43-12102
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/North_American_P-51D_prototype_in_flight_SN_43-12102%3B_Modified_P-51B_061023-F-1234P-021.jpg/1280px-North_American_P-51D_prototype_in_flight_SN_43-12102%3B_Modified_P-51B_061023-F-1234P-021.jpg)
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I'll take your word for it; though the other option does seem like a fun way to confozzle JMN's.
If not "razorback", then perhaps "fastback"? I know that term is used for early Cessna 172's before they went to the "all-around vision" cut-down rear fuselage with swept vertical tale.
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I'll take your word for it; though the other option does seem like a fun way to confozzle JMN's.
If not "razorback", then perhaps "fastback"? I know that term is used for early Cessna 172's before they went to the "all-around vision" cut-down rear fuselage with swept vertical tale.
Fastback GT1650. ;D ;)
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I'll take your word for it; though the other option does seem like a fun way to confozzle JMN's.
If not "razorback", then perhaps "fastback"? I know that term is used for early Cessna 172's before they went to the "all-around vision" cut-down rear fuselage with swept vertical tale.
Fastback GT1650. ;D ;)
*SNORT!* I love it!
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How about just leaving P-51D/K Mustangs as "bubble top", it's bad enough that some seem to think that the beautifully elegant Spitfire is a "Razorback", a term which suits the hulking great P-47C/D (early) admirably, and just does not suit the Spitfire nor the P-51B/C at all.
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High back? ???
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Nope, I'm with FAAMAN, anything pre-D does not require a modifier, as it's general
knowledge that the bubble-canopy was introduced on the D.
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Nope, I'm with FAAMAN, anything pre-D does not require a modifier, as it's general
knowledge that the bubble-canopy was introduced on the D.
Ditto
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Restored twin mustang:
https://dms.licdn.com/playback/C4E05AQHZeyUgoVqr_Q/9bb628e412114385ba26fad65fa05c24/feedshare-mp4_500/1479932728445-v0ch3x?e=1527969600&v=beta&t=eLr_e5IC2vXbm612ZcVGaPuD50fsp1pxAgtarz3RfGo
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gorgeous -----
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Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?
With Skyraider wings + ordnance loadout.
SEA camouflage
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Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?
I don't even know how that'd work. Because the Gannet's double Mamble engines were side by side, it was a pretty wide arrangement. That might work on something like a P-47 or a Corsair, but the P-51 was designed for the narrowest possible airframe around the Allison engine. So the blending may be pretty...tough. The fuselage cross-sections were just designed differently.
Cheers,
Logan
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Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?
With Skyraider wings + ordnance loadout.
SEA camouflage
With a P-51H, you've got a fairly good start. But I would go with one F-82 fuselage ----
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Twin-engined P-51 with a power plant layout similiar to the Fairey Gannet ?
I don't even know how that'd work. Because the Gannet's double Mamble engines were side by side, it was a pretty wide arrangement. That might work on something like a P-47 or a Corsair, but the P-51 was designed for the narrowest possible airframe around the Allison engine. So the blending may be pretty...tough. The fuselage cross-sections were just designed differently.
ISTR that there was an advanced P-81 variant schemed with a Gannet-like double turboprop installation at the front end. Perhaps that could be a starting point?
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There's also a size difference between a P-51 and a Gannet/Skyraider, the P-51 being nearly half the size of the other two ----
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Why does the twinned engine setup have to be a side-by-side arrangement
like the Double-Mamba, why not stacked vertically?
Nor does it have to be of a size similar to the Double-Mamba, and certainly not
in the T40 range.
P&W Canada PT6T-6 (Twin-Pac)
Mechanical shp: 1,875
RPM: 6,600
Height: 32.5"
Width: 43.5"
Length: 66"
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F5jrQ-FYuX4/WY2p5rqO7DI/AAAAAAAAK2U/htZTHH1Wyo4YlwKJQNSAdcyL-5_Q0ublACLcBGAs/s1600/PT6T-3D.jpg)
Note that height includes the offset accessories, rearrange, turn the engine 90° and that height
becomes a much narrower width.
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I was thinking about that same thing, jcf, when the question was originally posed. I know of no reason why it couldn't be done that way. I don't know whether anyone has or not (or what trade-offs such a choice might present).
Cheers,
Logan
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Assuming you want this to work like a Gannet, I think you'd need a new gearbox in front of the engine, so unsure how large that would be. The twinpac has separate powertakeoffs if I'm not mistaken, the Double Mamba had a single power take off to the propeller gearbox which could allow one prop to be stopped while the other continued operating.
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Yes, Brian the turboshaft PT6T is a different animal, I was using it as an
example of packaging rather than what would be used.
Incidentally the Allison T40, couple T38s, also had the ability to run the engines
separately.
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Why does the twinned engine setup have to be a side-by-side arrangement
like the Double-Mamba, why not stacked vertically?
Nor does it have to be of a size similar to the Double-Mamba, and certainly not
in the T40 range.
P&W Canada PT6T-6 (Twin-Pac)
Mechanical shp: 1,875
RPM: 6,600
Height: 32.5"
Width: 43.5"
Length: 66"
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F5jrQ-FYuX4/WY2p5rqO7DI/AAAAAAAAK2U/htZTHH1Wyo4YlwKJQNSAdcyL-5_Q0ublACLcBGAs/s1600/PT6T-3D.jpg)
Note that height includes the offset accessories, rearrange, turn the engine 90° and that height
becomes a much narrower width.
You could orientate the engines themselves, so the exhaust exited each side of the aircraft ---- hmm interesting proposition ---
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Incidentally the Allison T40, couple T38s, also had the ability to run the engines
separately.
As, if it had ever been built, would have the T54 (two coupled T56 gas generators); basically an improved T40 much as the T56 is an improved T38.
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How about a P-51 with the Allison V-1710 and turbosupercharger from the P-38. The original P-51s had this engine, though without turbosupercharger. What if instead of going to the Merlin, they simply added the turbosupercharger from the P-38 to provide the higher altitude performance sought?
I had a bash ... but she's not much of a looker! [url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=2211;image[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=2211;image[/url])
Might it be simpler to adopt a Thunderbolt-style turbo system to the P-51?
BTW: as their starting point, these images used bits and pieces from various Gaëtan Marie profiles -- [url]http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm[/url] ([url]http://mustang.gaetanmarie.com/profiles.htm[/url])
Reengining Mustang with turbocharged Allison, taken from P-38J.
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/P51turboAllison.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/P51turboAllison.jpg.html)
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So, where does the intercooler go? Where the oil cooler used to be? ;)
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So, where does the intercooler go? Where the oil cooler used to be? ;)
It would be a convoluted flow path, but perhaps where the radiator is on a Ki-78?
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How about a Pilot and 3 passengers?
(http://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/mustangs-civil/Must-CF-WWH-Miss-Behave-KOM.jpg)
CF-WWH four-seater with CF-100 Canuck canopy, named "Miss Behave". Photo via Derek Macphail
More information here: AUSTRALIAN CIVIL MUSTANGS (http://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/mustangs-civil/austcivilmustangs.html)
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Reengining Mustang Deutchstil
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/P-51dMotoren.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/P-51dMotoren.jpg.html)
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... to accomodate turbocompressor intercooler? ???
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/P51turboAllison2.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/P51turboAllison2.jpg.html)
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... to accommodate turbocompressor intercooler? ???
Don't think there's enough room behind the turbocharger/intercooler in that location to accommodate it and the plumbing of the exhaust to the turbocharger from the engine. Too many sharp bends and pressure losses.
Might have to be routed aft of the cockpit, moving at least some of the fuel there ahead of the cockpit or moving the cockpit forward.
It's a tricky game to play with the plumbing and CG of a fighter. ???
Paul
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Crossind late P-40 and early P-51
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/P40E_P51B_X.jpeg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/P40E_P51B_X.jpeg.html)
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Found on Facebook.
F-82 Gun pod/pack
(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48385402_2017486155012912_316594099656327168_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fxds1-1.fna&oh=f0a52f721bd009b40fa7ac3bc6edae00&oe=5CD22B16)
(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49114045_2017486121679582_7131696919021092864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fxds1-1.fna&oh=10dba1c5987fce77a5faf142e73b7bec&oe=5CD954E9)
(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49058204_2017495348345326_4588106282900127744_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent.fxds1-1.fna&oh=f1cfaede362bc1602c0c040443df60dc&oe=5CD404C1)
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(http://i.imgur.com/gZX0fsd.jpg)
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Nice photos
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Still waiting for an injection moulded 1:48th scale Piper PA48...
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Nice find Carl :smiley:
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([url]http://i.imgur.com/gZX0fsd.jpg[/url])
"Damn!! That's enough to give an airplane a hernia!"
IIRC, the latest issue of Mustangs International has an article on the one and only RP-82B. That would make an interesting conversion.
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Anyone ever see that gun pod in plastic or resin?
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Anyone ever see that gun pod in plastic or resin?
The Facebook poster of these photo's asked the same question. Don't think it was made in any scale.
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Anyone ever see that gun pod in plastic or resin?
The Facebook poster of these photo's asked the same question. Don't think it was made in any scale.
I've got some other photos of it and a drawing, so I started to scratch build one some years ago, but right now I can't find any of it (which is odd because I have my F-82 kits all to hand on my bench)
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Can remember if I suggested this before or not, but an A-36B/C with 4x 20mm cannon plus RR Merlin.
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F-82 Gun pod/pack
<TBG corrected the link> There's a recon pod version of this back at Reply # 17 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=988.msg13240#msg13240)
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More of the 40mm S-Gun trial:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/10/28/60102862823a168b01f112deb5d664f4.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/be/bf/a6bebfb0239119fbf9d3b18b657bf9c0.jpg)
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Twin Mustang with a podded Molins gun in the center pod ;D
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Or --- Twin Mustang with a M61 ;)
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More of the 40mm S-Gun trial:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/10/28/60102862823a168b01f112deb5d664f4.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/be/bf/a6bebfb0239119fbf9d3b18b657bf9c0.jpg)
A couple of my projects in the planning stage, is RAF F-82's armed with cannon, one with four 20mm's and the other with two 20mm's and two of those 40mm pods. I'm thinking all in or under the center wing section.
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Given the Mustang Mk I entered service with the RAF in January 1942 and were soon transferred to Army Co-operation Command for tactical reconnaissance and ground-attack duties and given that the 40 mm cannon armed Hawker Hurricane Mk. IID saw service in North Africa around the same time, the following with 40mm guns is not too far fetched:
(https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/profile_mustang_28-557x160.gif)
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Twin Mustang with a podded Molins gun in the center pod ;D
... utilizing non-Meelin Mustangs! :smiley:
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Didn't all Twin Mustangs have Allisons?
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Didn't all Twin Mustangs have Allisons?
Not quite all.
"the first two prototype XP-82s as well as the next 20 P-82B models were powered by British-designed Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, re-engineered for increased durability and mass-production, and built under license by Packard."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-82_Twin_Mustang#Design_and_development
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Didn't all Twin Mustangs have Allisons?
Not quite all.
"the first two prototype XP-82s as well as the next 20 P-82B models were powered by British-designed Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, re-engineered for increased durability and mass-production, and built under license by Packard."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-82_Twin_Mustang#Design_and_development
The Packard Merlins were slightly different to the RR Merlins, my Dad said they had to be particularly careful as some of the Lancasters used by 617 Sqn used both types, sometimes even on one aircraft.
My model though has RR Griffons and contra-props.
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Didn't all Twin Mustangs have Allisons?
Sorry. I suppose I could have worded my idea better. ;D I was hinting at a tank-busting Twin Mustang derived from the early Mustangs (Mustang Mk I/IA, Apache/Invader...). I said "Non-Merlin Mustang" and meant early Mustangs, as opposed to later Mustangs powered by licensed Merlins.
That said, I typed that answer while going all-out on a stationary bike at the gym. That's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it. ;)
I have two Italeri 1/72 "Mustang I Razorback" earmarked for such a what-if. Might not be just for tank-busting, but could also be useful for anti-shipping missions.
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Hmm, suggests combining a late P-82/F-82 engine installation and cowling with a P-51H. I could see this as rationalizing engine usage on a common engine.
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Hmm, suggests combining a late P-82/F-82 engine installation and cowling with a P-51H. I could see this as rationalizing engine usage on a common engine.
When I matched up a P-51H with the F-82, I found practically all of the fuselages matched, the lower edge of the F-82 cowling is the difference between the Allison installation and the Merlin's.
So I've used the P-51H cowling as a master and made some castings (middle pic).
But for my Griffon installation, I used a cowling from a Fairey Firefly Mk.V (bottom pic)
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Wow, that Griffon Twin Mustang it really bitchin'! Would likely have made a really effective COIN light attack aircraft in the 50's-60's period.
Cavalier? We don't need no steeenkin' Cavalier! ;D
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I'll be posting a thread up here soon, but here's a teaser
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Ooo, that looks fabulous. One concern, though ... is the load-out adequate? ;D
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Usually, I do my load outs conservatively, but I've seen the photos of the Trojans, Tweets, Skyraiders, Invaders, all loaded up to the tits ---- I knew that this one had to be the same ---- >:D >:D >:D >:D
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Looking right and ready to take care of S.E.A. business propeller style. :smiley:
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Been looking at the time lines and it struck me that with appropriate support the early Mustangs could (maybe) have been built in Australia instead of the Boomerang.
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I'll be posting a thread up here soon, but here's a teaser
Dead fecking sexy!
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I'll be posting a thread up here soon, but here's a teaser
Dead fecking sexy!
Thanks :smiley:
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Can't help myself:
(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/fb_img_1569521625218-jpg.554218/)
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;D
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So, does anyone know if decals for the F/TF-51D's that the US Army used as chase planes for the Cheyenne and other aircraft exist in either 1/72 or 1/48? For this one, I'd really prefer 1/48.
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So, does anyone know if decals for the F/TF-51D's that the US Army used as chase planes for the Cheyenne and other aircraft exist in either 1/72 or 1/48? For this one, I'd really prefer 1/48.
These ones?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/unnamed_5.jpg)
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Picture isn't showing up.
-
Try now.
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So, does anyone know if decals for the F/TF-51D's that the US Army used as chase planes for the Cheyenne and other aircraft exist in either 1/72 or 1/48? For this one, I'd really prefer 1/48.
These ones?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/unnamed_5.jpg)
Yes, I'm looking to see if there are decals for those aircraft.
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So, does anyone know if decals for the F/TF-51D's that the US Army used as chase planes for the Cheyenne and other aircraft exist in either 1/72 or 1/48? For this one, I'd really prefer 1/48.
These ones?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/unnamed_5.jpg)
Yes, I'm looking to see if there are decals for those aircraft.
I just checked Draw Decals who has the best collection of one off P-51 decals with no success. Contact Greg Drawbaugh to see if maybe once had it?
https://www.shopdrawdecal.com/default.asp (https://www.shopdrawdecal.com/default.asp)
https://www.drawdecal.com/author/greg-drawbaugh/ (https://www.drawdecal.com/author/greg-drawbaugh/)
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Someone has made a 1/72 model of it
Scroll down a bit.
https://modelingmadness.com/others/features/mustangpage/usaafmustangs/usaf_mustangs.htm
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How about a F-82 with wingtip Marquart XRJ-30-MA ramjet engines ala below:
(https://i.imgur.com/ztrF5dT.png)
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An engine out would be interesting...
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North American Thoroughbred
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Thoroughbred(2).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/3cc3b1fc-a9a6-4301-a645-667a8d06cf7f)
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So, does anyone know if decals for the F/TF-51D's that the US Army used as chase planes for the Cheyenne and other aircraft exist in either 1/72 or 1/48? For this one, I'd really prefer 1/48.
These ones?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/unnamed_5.jpg)
Yes, I'm looking to see if there are decals for those aircraft.
I just checked Draw Decals who has the best collection of one off P-51 decals with no success. Contact Greg Drawbaugh to see if maybe once had it?
https://www.shopdrawdecal.com/default.asp (https://www.shopdrawdecal.com/default.asp)
https://www.drawdecal.com/author/greg-drawbaugh/ (https://www.drawdecal.com/author/greg-drawbaugh/)
Looks like a Cavalier Mustang 2 seat canopy. Not sure where you would find one of those.
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Looks like a Cavalier Mustang 2 seat canopy. Not sure where you would find one of those.
Here perhaps:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/245422705_10159422082839496_4682459640754640683_n.jpg)
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New variants of A-36 Apaches
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/NewA-36.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/0aecb86c-91ac-423f-a9eb-15204a86aa21)
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Interesting . . .
The original Merlin powered Mustang prototypes had chin radiators . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Mustang_Mk.X
cheers,
Robin.
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This is the THEE book on the Mustang and RR engines:
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780951171004-us.jpg)
2nd Edition has a blue cover.
Available here: https://www.rolls-royce.com/about/heritage-trust.aspx (https://www.rolls-royce.com/about/heritage-trust.aspx)
List of RR Pubs: https://www.rolls-royce.com/~/media/Files/R/Rolls-Royce/documents/about/the-rolls-royce-heritage-trust-book-list-19-march-2021.pdf (https://www.rolls-royce.com/~/media/Files/R/Rolls-Royce/documents/about/the-rolls-royce-heritage-trust-book-list-19-march-2021.pdf)
Scroll down to bottom of page for list of publication and order form
H/T to Robert (kitnut617) on this one.
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The High Planes 1/72 Mustang Mk.X. The kit comes with three (or four) configuration options which covers all the prototypes. I built mine with one of the upgrades the Mustang Mk.X got but is not in the kit. Wind tunnel tests had determined the fin didn't have sufficient area but I'll have to re-read the book to find out what it was, but it involved adding a 3" wide fin leading edge extension, from fuselage to fin tip.
RR received five surplus to requirement Mustang Mk.I's (Allison engine), one was kept in original condition so RR could do direct comparisons with the Merlin conversion. My build is of the final configuration and had a Spitfire Mk.IX engine, prop and spinner.
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North American Thoroughbred
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Thoroughbred(2).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/3cc3b1fc-a9a6-4301-a645-667a8d06cf7f)
This looks very right.
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North American Thoroughbred
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This looks very right.
I like the look - - - but then it baffles me.
I don't see a propeller in the nose but otherwise it looks like there is an engine there. Or maybe a radar?
Three engines would probably be overkill, two might make sense if you can carry enough fuel to give it some range.
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North American Thoroughbred
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This looks very right.
I like the look - - - but then it baffles me.
I don't see a propeller in the nose but otherwise it looks like there is an engine there. Or maybe a radar?
Three engines would probably be overkill, two might make sense if you can carry enough fuel to give it some range.
That question was answered over on WIM:
2 x engines
2 x 20mm cannon firing through the opening above the nose*.
[*: My take on it is that the opening is to improve air cooling of, & fume extraction from the weapons.]
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The High Planes 1/72 Mustang Mk.X. The kit comes with three (or four) configuration options which covers all the prototypes. I built mine with one of the upgrades the Mustang Mk.X got but is not in the kit. Wind tunnel tests had determined the fin didn't have sufficient area but I'll have to re-read the book to find out what it was, but it involved adding a 3" wide fin leading edge extension, from fuselage to fin tip.
RR received five surplus to requirement Mustang Mk.I's (Allison engine), one was kept in original condition so RR could do direct comparisons with the Merlin conversion. My build is of the final configuration and had a Spitfire Mk.IX engine, prop and spinner.
AFAIK from reading, the other approach to enlarging the vertical surface was an extended chord rudder, but that reduced roll rates.
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Just a thought, the Mustang was originally commissioned by the Anglo French Procurement Board. If the commission had been let earlier or if France had not fallen so quickly, you might see Allison-engined Mustangs in French markings. 'Twould be something different.
Regarding engine changes, NAA looked at the Continental IV1430 and R-R Griffon as well as Allison's initial two-stage supercharger propsoal amd all of them were rejected as they all required major airframe changes. NAA's managemnt was especially leaned on regarding the Allison engine since, at that time, NAA and Allison were both owned by General Motors and the Board of Directors wanted to keep teh Mustang engine in-house if at all possible.
An excellent book covering the Mustang from the founding of NAA up to beyond D-Day is P-51B, How North American's bastard Stepchild Fighter Saved the Eighth Air Force. Apparently, there was a prejudice against the Mustane in USAAF Material Command from General Echols on down (seems he wanted NAA to take over p-40 production instead so Curtiss could retool to build the production P-46, which never passed the XP-46 trials. Echols was also a major force behind the P-75 as a long-range escort for bomber streams over Germany and he was not overjoyed when NAA managed to develop the P-51B et al. to do the job.
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General Echols sounds like the wrong guy to have in charge of procurement when there was a war on. At a time like that you have to go with what works, not what would be nice to have or personal favorites.
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I wouldn't be bagging Oliver Echols too much, he did a lot for USAAF procurement prior to & during WW2.
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/107117/major-general-oliver-p-echols/ (https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/107117/major-general-oliver-p-echols/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_P._Echols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_P._Echols)
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I wouldn't be bagging Oliver Echols too much, he did a lot for USAAF procurement prior to & during WW2.
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/107117/major-general-oliver-p-echols/ (https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/107117/major-general-oliver-p-echols/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_P._Echols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_P._Echols)
Yes, and he had enough mis-steps that he had no influence after the war. I understand General Arnold was quite unhappy with him. It was his direction to keep supplying Packard-built Merlins to Curtiss for the P-40F et al. that slowed down deevelopment of the P-51B and then deliveries of complete P-15Bs, it took a very pointed instructions from Gen.Arnold to change that.
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Just a thought, the Mustang was originally commissioned by the Anglo French Procurement Board. If the commission had been let earlier or if France had not fallen so quickly, you might see Allison-engined Mustangs in French markings. 'Twould be something different.
I like your thinking
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(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/2-seat-p51_edited-1-jpg.716407/)
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(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/p51-jpg.716408/)
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Ooooh, pretty! :-*
I don't know why my brain did this, but upon seeing this "P-51Z" it went "How about a Dornier Pfeil, but from Mustang parts?" It's a good question, tho.
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(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/5254a206-3151-4cf2-86a6-6781d1611299/dg32r3o-b142564d-7ff7-43d0-9279-e957a260ad55.jpg/v1/fit/w_512,h_640,q_70,strp/361624294_816974336465492_220972100317826082_n_by_michelum_dg32r3o-375w-2x.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NjQwIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvNTI1NGEyMDYtMzE1MS00Y2YyLTg2YTYtNjc4MWQxNjExMjk5XC9kZzMycjNvLWIxNDI1NjRkLTdmZjctNDNkMC05Mjc5LWU5NTdhMjYwYWQ1NS5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NTEyIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.Exx7U4Ekw0OenSuQDr72k5rxscKUZ1fnS1f8WsCZbLM)
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Just a thought, the Mustang was originally commissioned by the Anglo French Procurement Board. If the commission had been let earlier or if France had not fallen so quickly, you might see Allison-engined Mustangs in French markings. 'Twould be something different.
Another thought from this, Allison-powered Mustangs in Vichy French service.
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Random idea: CAC produced F-82 as post war replacement for Beaufighters/Mosquitos?
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(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/2-seat-p51_edited-1-jpg.716407/)
Quite nice indeed! :-*
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P-51C / CAC CA-17 Mustang Mk 19:
Not sure what the author is saying about the canopy or do mean a C model airframe? Regardless that gave me the idea to shim in the P-51C as the Mark 19.
From Wikipedia:
Local assembly of the P-51D (CA-17; Mk 20)
Plans to assemble a proven fighter locally began to bear fruit in December 1942, the War Cabinet began to make arrangements with North American Aviation (NAA) for CAC to assemble the P-51 Mustang. These arrangements were finalized in November 1943, with CAC scheduled to build 690 P-51Ds, from kits made in the United States by NAA.[2] (As it awaited arrival of the kits, CAC privately continued work on the CA-15, as a possible back-up or even replacement for, the Mustang. However, the US-built radial engines intended for the CA-15 became unavailable, also hampering that project.)
Only 100 unassembled P-51s were ever delivered, and four reportedly had the "razorback" style canopy of the P-51B/C variant. In either late 1944 or early 1945, assembly of 80 of the P-51D kits commenced, under the designation CA-17 Mustang Mk 20 with Packard V-1710-3 Merlin engines, with the remainder being used for spare parts.[2][3][4] The end of the war led to cancellation of the remainder of the kits ordered from NAA.
and
P-51L / CAC CA-21 Mustang Mk.24
- P-51D with wingtip Ramjets
P-51M / CAC CA-21 Mustang Mk.25
P-51N / CAC CA-21 Mustang Mk.26
- P-51H fuselage with a D wing and Tip tanks
- An unauthorized Cavalier Mustang II knock off
- Use the RS P-51Hs in the stash. And Blackbird Cavalier Conversion kit