BOFORS 120 mm luftvärnsautomatkanon

[Rickshaw]

Ummm modern naval gun fire support is conducted with weapons designed initially as DP anti surface and anti air.  Coastal artillery was primarily naval guns and calibres, 6" and 9.2" Cruiser calibres being examples of this.

Naval artillery cheats.  They move the ship further out or closer in, to vary the distance to the target to allow the guns to reach it more easily.   Coastal artillery tends not to play with trajectories all that much.  The elevation on their mounts are limited.   There was a fad for a while for Howitzers in coastal defence batteries to allow plunging fire to be used against ships closer in but when the ships put more armour on their decks, their utility became limited.   They also tried to use mortars - the US was the only nation that took to them in a big way that I know of - for the same job but again, their ranges were limited and increased deck armour defeated their utility.

I've explained how (and provided supporting links) on everything from target designation to modification of smart projectiles and even the loading sequence for alternative target engagements. All I'm reading is "we can't do that, we might get in trouble".

For a place that's supposed to be all about thinking outside the box, we sure have folks who love following straight lines.

You can be derisive if you so desire however, I am explaining why certain types of artillery were designed the way they were.   Your attempts at humour are well, to put it mildly, quite childish.   Now, your anti-aircraft gun can fire quite well as an anti-aircraft or an anti-tank or a Coastal defence piece of artillery.   It can also be used as a piece of field artillery but it will be less effective than a weapon with separate loading rounds.   No one has denied that it can be used as such but it will be an expensive and difficult weapon to use in such a manner.    It will have to fire quite high trajectories using fixed ammunition to hit targets closer in, behind hills and other obstacles and have longer times of flight.   Personally, I'd rather have a well designed gun/howitzer for that role, than an adapted anti-aircraft weapon.

[Story]

Naval artillery cheats.  They move the ship further out or closer in, to vary the distance to the target to allow the guns to reach it more easily.   Coastal artillery tends not to play with trajectories all that much.  The elevation on their mounts are limited.   There was a fad for a while for Howitzers in coastal defence batteries to allow plunging fire to be used against ships closer in but when the ships put more armour on their decks, their utility became limited.   They also tried to use mortars - the US was the only nation that took to them in a big way that I know of - for the same job but again, their ranges were limited and increased deck armour defeated their utility.

You missed the part about laser designators and modified Excalibur projectiles.

You can be derisive if you so desire however, I am explaining why certain types of artillery were designed the way they were.   Your attempts at humour are well, to put it mildly, quite childish.      Personally, I'd rather have a well designed gun/howitzer for that role, than an adapted anti-aircraft weapon.

Lighten up, Brian. 

We're talking about the WIFF of putting a museum piece back into action. Everything I cited can be executed, given the constraints already laid out. You're just squirming (again).

[Crbad]

Story, I ran into a similar issue awhile back. I think we were discussing the book World War Z, the battle of Yonkers in particular. I suggested mounting claymore mines above ground level in trees, street posts, etc.
  No! It can't be done! It's a ridiculous idea! There is no provision in the manual for such a thing! I was honestly surprised anyone would care, let alone argue such a hypothetical situation (even though it was supposedly done by both sides in Vietnam). Sometimes it's just best to shrug and walk away.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Claymore's in trees?  Great idea.  That is what duct tape and zip ties are for :)

[Story]

That is what duct tape and zip ties are for :)

It's all good as long the XO circle-X's whatever it is you're not supposed to be doing to make it work on the DA 2404.

  I suggested mounting claymore mines above ground level in trees, street posts, etc.

Range Control gets all uptight when you daisy-chain Hoffman charges.

Ask me hows I knows that. 

[Rickshaw]

Naval artillery cheats.  They move the ship further out or closer in, to vary the distance to the target to allow the guns to reach it more easily.   Coastal artillery tends not to play with trajectories all that much.  The elevation on their mounts are limited.   There was a fad for a while for Howitzers in coastal defence batteries to allow plunging fire to be used against ships closer in but when the ships put more armour on their decks, their utility became limited.   They also tried to use mortars - the US was the only nation that took to them in a big way that I know of - for the same job but again, their ranges were limited and increased deck armour defeated their utility.

You missed the part about laser designators and modified Excalibur projectiles.

A cheat's method of overcoming the limitations inherent in the weapon.   You still need varying trajectories to allow you to fire over obstacles.

You can be derisive if you so desire however, I am explaining why certain types of artillery were designed the way they were.   Your attempts at humour are well, to put it mildly, quite childish.      Personally, I'd rather have a well designed gun/howitzer for that role, than an adapted anti-aircraft weapon.

Lighten up, Brian. 

We're talking about the WIFF of putting a museum piece back into action. Everything I cited can be executed, given the constraints already laid out. You're just squirming (again).

Ah, the good ol' joke defence.   Ah, yes, OK, how about we have instead rockets?   Much cheaper to produce and much more accurate, if coupled with laser designators and seekers.   Oh, you can put their own guidance systems on the rockets which enhance their accuracy considerably.  The Taiwanese have missiles with multiple, redundant guidance systems - Radar, IR, Laser...   

[GTX_Admin]

Guys, chill!  Don't make me hand out some paddlin's

[Gingie]

None the less Rhinemetal propose just such an option with their PzH2000 and Dona, combined with a 155mm round using the same AHEAD tech as their millennium 35mm AAA /CWIS

That's interesting. I worked on the AHEAD trials when the RCA had a battery of GDF-005's. We envisioned using them in anti-anti radiation missile defence, where the operator in the SkyGuard FCU could over ride the gunners in the twin 35 with a 'panic button' that would slew all the troop guns on to the vampire and let loose a combat burst of AHEAD. It was something to see (and hear!!).

I'm really curious about a 155 AHEAD. To be used in an anti-air role, with a PzH2k...I think for it to be effective the round would have to be pre-loaded in the breech? Or something? By the time the air threat is spotted and data passed to the guns, the time it would take to load and slew on to the target, its likely well out of the range of the shell.

One of the reasons AHEAD works is that there are typically multiple barrels firing hundreds of rounds with thousands of tungsten fragments. A PzH with a comparatively low rate of fire (1 or 2 at best before the threat has say, turned slightly) , I'm just not seeing how it can be used in an AD role. Now, if you want to figure out how to employ AHEAD in an anti-pers role...*that* I could see being pretty nasty.

[Volkodav]

None the less Rhinemetal propose just such an option with their PzH2000 and Dona, combined with a 155mm round using the same AHEAD tech as their millennium 35mm AAA /CWIS

That's interesting. I worked on the AHEAD trials when the RCA had a battery of GDF-005's. We envisioned using them in anti-anti radiation missile defence, where the operator in the SkyGuard FCU could over ride the gunners in the twin 35 with a 'panic button' that would slew all the troop guns on to the vampire and let loose a combat burst of AHEAD. It was something to see (and hear!!).

I'm really curious about a 155 AHEAD. To be used in an anti-air role, with a PzH2k...I think for it to be effective the round would have to be pre-loaded in the breech? Or something? By the time the air threat is spotted and data passed to the guns, the time it would take to load and slew on to the target, its likely well out of the range of the shell.

One of the reasons AHEAD works is that there are typically multiple barrels firing hundreds of rounds with thousands of tungsten fragments. A PzH with a comparatively low rate of fire (1 or 2 at best before the threat has say, turned slightly) , I'm just not seeing how it can be used in an AD role. Now, if you want to figure out how to employ AHEAD in an anti-pers role...*that* I could see being pretty nasty.

Been a long time since I read the article but if I recall it was being pursued as a long range CRAM solution where a one vehicle in the section was assigned to CRAM with ready fire rounds ready to go.

[Gingie]

That makes a ton of sense. CRAM ready to fire, shooting at a target following a predictable unguided ballistic trajectory. I could see that working against a single rocket or mortar bomb. Not sure if the rate of fire could protect against a salvo or FFE.

[M.A.D]

Film footage of this Swedish 120mm anti-aircraft gun during trials would be amazing to see!!

I've had a look on the web, but nothing prevailes 😔

MAD

[Story]

Story, I ran into a similar issue awhile back. I think we were discussing the book World War Z, the battle of Yonkers in particular. I suggested mounting claymore mines above ground level in trees, street posts, etc.
  No! It can't be done! It's a ridiculous idea! There is no provision in the manual for such a thing! I was honestly surprised anyone would care, let alone argue such a hypothetical situation (even though it was supposedly done by both sides in Vietnam). Sometimes it's just best to shrug and walk away.

Way back when, *we* lost four guys to an Iranian Quds-manufactured shaped charged IED that AQI placed up on a power pole - where no one would think to look for them.

Boom.