Boeing P-26. RAF stylie

[Robomog]

Hi all

 just a place holder at the moment.

I have never seen a group build generate so much comment in the ideas and inspiration section, you could pull the whole section out and drop it smoothly into The Sparring Room and no one would notice the difference.

It makes for fascinating reading and shows how unprepared the US was at that time, but all the debate is making it difficult (for me at least) to get a handle on a subject to model so here Is how I'm going to interpret it. (Essentially to make it "fit"  )

For whatever reason the United States declares war, Britain is in dire straights and needs aircraft, any aircraft, as indicated in the inspiration section the USA is lagging in the technology stakes but scrapes together some older available types, including the Boeing P-26, to bolster the RAF.

It was obvious that this aircraft would be no match for the axis aircraft in the European theatre so they were rapidly dispatched to the Mediterranean theatre to bolster the air forces there.

Dispatch was rapid and there was no time to fully repaint the Boeings just change the national insignia.

And there you have my very simplistic and tentative slant on the build.

(Do I hear a voice going. " Noooooooo!" ?)

More when it happens


Mog
>^-.-^<

[Brian da Basher]

Oohhhh a RAF Peashooter in Med colors! Sounds like a looker already!

Brian da Basher

[jcf]

You can have a lot of fun with colour choices. 

In 1940 the overall bare-metal or silver paint scheme for tactical aircraft was in effect,
and some P-26s had been refinished, others were still in the blue and yellow. You could
have had a mish-mash of schemes on the pulled together P-26 lot.

In the mid-30s China bought 11 Model 281 (export P-26A) from Boeing and these were
all finished in overall light-grey, perhaps there was a follow on order that had ended up
sitting in crates in a warehouse for some reason, embargo, lack of payment or whatever?
These are then grabbed by the US government and sent along.

Post-WWII Guatemala stripped the paint from the P-26s they had received during the war,
and from that point they flew them with bare grey anodized aluminum skin fuselages and
green painted wings. The fuselages had the same patchwork effect as the grey anodized
skin of the Boeing 247, which is why everybody ended up painting their 247s.
 


Of the water-based temporary camouflage paints used before 1940 some of the purples
and blacks were known to stick and leave stains, which required more cleanup than just
a hose and brush. P-26s with ragged leftovers of war games schemes?

[Robomog]

Thanks guys, interesting stuff, I'm bouncing between yellow/blue or mid stone/dark earth/azure blue at the moment wavering towards the former.

I didn't realise I have so many choices 

I will be starting soon

Mog
>^-.-^<

[Kelmola]

Thanks guys, interesting stuff, I'm bouncing between yellow/blue or mid stone/dark earth/azure blue at the moment wavering towards the former.

P-26's in yellow&blue are all too common (though not with RAF roundels), so desert camo would be more unique.

How about applying only dark earth in a camo pattern, leaving the yellow and blue visible?

[Robomog]

Hmmmm some good points made there, but I don't think the last one will happen though, whilst it is feasible given the time line above its a bit too weird, even for me. Thanks for the suggestion though it keeps me thinking

Mog
>^-.-^<

[dadlamassu]

Maybe some were in the pink/grey/olive green upperworks and yellow/olive undersides just repaint the roundels?

[Robomog]

Oh wow !  that is so tempting maybe with Azure blue rather than yellow, but that would work, a number of old Peashooters scraped together could include unwanted experimentals and with that style camouflage there would be very minimal alteration required, thanks for that.

Mog
>^-.-^<

[jcf]

Bear in mind that the mid-'30s experimental cammo schemes
were truly temporary using water-based paints and none of
the P-26s would have still been wearing the paint in '39 - '40.
Also there was no standardization, the patterns were all
unique so all of the aircraft looked different.

[Robomog]

Damn.  I'm may have to resort to handwavium! using the stretchyreality charm   

Mog
>^-.-^<

[Brian da Basher]

I think I can spare some Unobtainium if you need it, Mog.

Brian da Basher

[Frank3k]

Here's a list of hard to find elements, like Unobtanium unfortunately, no Handwavium

[Robomog]

Sorry to disappoint you chaps but handwavium is a sort of Harry potter type spell used in conjunction with the streachyreality charm to bend historical time to match your alt history.

In this case to bend the timeline of the Peashooter so that the random camouflage would be plauseable for 1939.

I believe handwavium has been used previously by whiffers but not in conjunction with stretchyreality.

Hope this helps 


Mog
>^-.-^<

[GTX_Admin]

According to Wikipedia (so maybe double check to confirm facts):  “Between 1938 and 1940, P-26s were assigned overseas to supplement Seversky P-35s in two defense units based at Wheeler Field, Territory of Hawaii:

18th Pursuit Group (6th, 19th, 73d, and 78th PS)
15th Pursuit Group (45th and 47th PS).

The 17th PG became the 17th Attack Group in 1935, and its P-26s were transferred in 1938 to the 16th Pursuit Group (24th, 29th, and 78th PS) at Albrook Field in the Panama Canal Zone. These P-26s were transferred in 1940 to the 37th Pursuit Group (28th, 30th, and 31st PS) which flew them until they were replaced by P-40s in May 1941. Some continued service with the 32d Pursuit Group (51st and 53rd PS), but only nine P-26s remained operational in Central America at the start of World War II.”

Maybe something there you could use.

Another idea might be if the US entered the war early but in China.  Again, from Wikipedia:  “The first Boeing P-26 to experience major combat operation was the Chinese Model 281. On 15 August 1937, eight P-26/281s from the Chinese Nationalist Air Force 3rd Pursuit Group, 17th Squadron, based at Chuyung airfield, engaged eight out of twenty Mitsubishi G3M Nell medium bombers from the Kisarazu Air Group sent to attack Nanking. The Chinese Boeing fighters helped shoot down two of the four Japanese bombers destroyed that day without suffering any losses. Subsequent engagements between the Chinese Peashooter pilots and pilots of the Imperial Japanese Navy flying the Mitsubishi A5M "Claudes" were the first aerial dogfights and kills between all-metal monoplane fighter aircraft.”

[Volkodav]

My understanding (limited though it is on US history) is that the US was predominantly isolationist pre WWII, but the US was also attempting to contain Japan through embargos and treaties (happy to stand corrected by those more knowledgeable on the topic).  Is it possible that the US, in particular if they became aware of Japanese planning for a Pacific war, would consider preemptive action against Japan?

[Some Duck with an Ultimax]

My understanding (limited though it is on US history) is that the US was predominantly isolationist pre WWII, but the US was also attempting to contain Japan through embargos and treaties (happy to stand corrected by those more knowledgeable on the topic).  Is it possible that the US, in particular if they became aware of Japanese planning for a Pacific war, would consider preemptive action against Japan?

While my knowledge of the period is far from exhaustive, based on what I do know I think it would have been unlikely and unpopular. That said, I’m happy to stand corrected as my area of expertise is far more the Japanese side.

[taiidantomcat]

Hi all

 just a place holder at the moment.

I have never seen a group build generate so much comment in the ideas and inspiration section, you could pull the whole section out and drop it smoothly into The Sparring Room and no one would notice the difference.

It makes for fascinating reading and shows how unprepared the US was at that time, but all the debate is making it difficult (for me at least) to get a handle on a subject to model so here Is how I'm going to interpret it. (Essentially to make it "fit"  )

Not usually this lively to be sure! 

[jcf]

My understanding (limited though it is on US history) is that the US was predominantly isolationist pre WWII

Extreme oversimplification and the term "isolationist" was used in a pejorative manner to encompass
any group who opposed or questioned going to war, be they non-interventionists - of various political
inclinations, anti-war in general, pro-peace for religious reasons etc., in much the same fashion as
those opposed to involvement in WWI were decried as being "anti-American". The number who were
truly "isolationist", who promoted turning completely inward, even to the extent of pulling back from
international trade etc., were a small minority.
The majority were unsure but did have serious questions and concerns, many generated by the
admitted manipulation of the public that preceded US entry into the First World War and the evident
failure of the war to change anything.

The somewhat fringe right-wingers were the loudest voices amongst the anti-interventionists, stating they
opposed the US being pulled into the war by the "internationalists", a classic dog-whistle, who controlled
the governments and media of the "democracies" and presenting Germany and Japan as being victims of
"war hate" and the media as beating the drum for intervention.
Ralph Townsend was one of those more blatantly pro-Germany and Japan, Italy to a lesser extent. I have
one of his pamphlets published on May 1, 1940, Seeking Foreign Trouble, that is extremely anti-British,
anti-French, anti-Communist and even to an extent anti-American as it condemns the US as one of the
imperialist powers. It turned out that he was accepting money from the Japanese. He's popular today with
the extreme right, militia types, anti-Semitic groups etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Townsend

A complicated subject and this really isn't the place to discuss it.

[Robomog]

Well, getting back to the modelling.

I still haven't decided the final colour scheme but I have plenty of the construction side to go before the final decision.

Here's the base kit.

by Robomog, on Flickr

According to general opinion it is the best on the market but has a few faults. I'm not going to attempt correcting much of that and build it pretty much out of the box.

It does have one fatal flaw though.

20191012_163710 by Robomog, on Flickr

Yup, that is printed on the outside of the bottom wing what idiot thought that one up ?
As you can see its a 1982 mould and has a fair bit of flash, mainly around the finer parts.

Here's progress so far

by Robomog, on Flickr


The small details are painted and as it's an open cockpit without the pilot l will put a little detail in there, I have made the control panel and will add seat belts and a joystick.

Thanks for all the interest and comments.

More when it happens

Mog
>^-.-^<

[Old Wombat]

I'm just getting broken image link boxes, 'Mog.

[Robomog]

Hmmmm I did this post from my phone I'll have a look tonight and repost from the PC

Mog
>^-.-^<

[GTX_Admin]

Works for me

[Volkodav]

My understanding (limited though it is on US history) is that the US was predominantly isolationist pre WWII

Extreme oversimplification and the term "isolationist" was used in a pejorative manner to encompass
any group who opposed or questioned going to war, be they non-interventionists - of various political
inclinations, anti-war in general, pro-peace for religious reasons etc., in much the same fashion as
those opposed to involvement in WWI were decried as being "anti-American". The number who were
truly "isolationist", who promoted turning completely inward, even to the extent of pulling back from
international trade etc., were a small minority.
The majority were unsure but did have serious questions and concerns, many generated by the
admitted manipulation of the public that preceded US entry into the First World War and the evident
failure of the war to change anything.

The somewhat fringe right-wingers were the loudest voices amongst the anti-interventionists, stating they
opposed the US being pulled into the war by the "internationalists", a classic dog-whistle, who controlled
the governments and media of the "democracies" and presenting Germany and Japan as being victims of
"war hate" and the media as beating the drum for intervention.
Ralph Townsend was one of those more blatantly pro-Germany and Japan, Italy to a lesser extent. I have
one of his pamphlets published on May 1, 1940, Seeking Foreign Trouble, that is extremely anti-British,
anti-French, anti-Communist and even to an extent anti-American as it condemns the US as one of the
imperialist powers. It turned out that he was accepting money from the Japanese. He's popular today with
the extreme right, militia types, anti-Semitic groups etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Townsend

A complicated subject and this really isn't the place to discuss it.

Thanks, very informative. I knew there were fringe elements and that the public in general were against involvement in another war but not the details.

[Old Wombat]

Hmmmm I did this post from my phone I'll have a look tonight and repost from the PC

Mog
>^-.-^<

Works for me

I tried dissecting the links & 2 elements take me to the flickr login page whilst the other brings up a "410: File not found" error message.

[Brian da Basher]

Looks good from here Mog.

That's a honey of a kit and one I don't think many truly appreciate.

It's going to be a treat to see your take on it.

Brian da Basher