Crew Served Weapons

[Jeffry Fontaine]

A place to discuss crew served weapons normally seen in use and organic to infantry units for direct and indirect fire support.  Crew served weapons such as the mortar, recoilless rifle, machine gun, and anti-tank guided missile launcher systems and associated equipment. 

I needed a place to post this little gem that I found today while reviewing a rather old book on ammunition. 
What caught my eye in the attached image was:
1.  It is a WOMBAT 120mm RR weapon
2.  Ammunition is correctly displayed with the individual rounds still inside of the container with just the base of the cartridge exposed for access. 
3.  The gunner is peering through an not often seen A/N TVS-5 Crew Served Weapons Night Vision Sight (aka "Starlight Scope"). 

Feel free to add other crew served weapons to the topic for discussion. 

[LemonJello]

Is that a spotting rifle mounted above the RR? The one in the background is a little more apparent.

[Old Wombat]

Yep, just part hidden by the scope.

[GTX_Admin]

fit a couple of these to some vehicles: 

XM307 Advanced Crew Served Weapon (was originally developed under the OCSW or Objective Crew Served Weapon project but cancelled in 2007):



It was 25mm.

[Story]

Is that a spotting rifle mounted above the RR? The one in the background is a little more apparent.

M-8C Spotting Rifle
http://www.warboats.org/mst2bremmer/stoner_ord_notes/stonerhtml/RECOILLESS_RIFLE.htm

If suitably motivated, the spotting rifle cartridges can be made from cut-down .50 cal Browning brass.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

M-8C Spotting Rifle <snip> If suitably motivated, the spotting rifle cartridges can be made from cut-down .50 cal Browning brass.

If suitably motivated the M8C Spotting Rifle would be replaced with a laser rangefinder and a suitable auto-ranging weapons telescope to adjust for elevation/azimuth :)

[Story]

I'd never heard of the Buzogányvető before, until I tripped over it on Shapeways. Comes in 1/72nd, 1/100th & 1/144th.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/

[GTX_Admin]

I'd never heard of the Buzogányvető before, until I tripped over it on Shapeways. Comes in 1/72nd, 1/100th & 1/144th.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/SMDYVS665/1-72nd-scale-44m-buzoganyveto?optionId=59924635

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_44M

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/02/hungarian-toldi-ii-lt-with-44m-buzoganyveto-anti-tank-rocket-launcher/

First time I read about it was in Colin Gee's Red Gambit series.

[Story]

Posted primarily for the TOW wedged into an MRAP turret, but also for Grunt-level innovation.
https://taskandpurpose.com/5-battlefield-innovations-that-came-from-the-rank-and-file-troops/

#5 can also be down with the old ALICE pack and 750 rounds 7.62NATO belted in the main compartment for the M60. Ask me hows I knows dat.

[ChernayaAkula]

Both found via the "Shitty Technicals" subredit on reddit. LINK!

Greek patrol boat armed with M40 recoilless rifle, 1980s


SOURCE


Mortar bike


SOURCE

[GTX_Admin]

That Mortar bike is cool.

[Frank3k]

It looks like this 1/35 product from Zvezda:

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Shoot and Scoot...


Also do not forget the French Vespa 159 TAP (Troupes AéroPortées) that is armed with a 75mm Recoilless Rifle used as the seat for the rider.

More at Wikipedia:

[GTX_Admin]

It looks like this 1/35 product from Zvezda:

Exactly and here is the box:



Nice find Frank.

You can also see much more on these in this pdf:  http://www.russianiron.com/eafranke_ural/Part%20XVII%20Motorcycle-Mounted%20Mortars.pdf - BTW can someone tell me what is shown on the  Landing “Excelsior” page?

I really like this idea.  It seems so elegant.

[GTX_Admin]

Taking the above concept further, one idea I have had planned for years (and which I believe I have mentioned before) is to do a model of a West German Cold War (probably set in a '70s/'80s scenario) anti-tank motorcycle side car arrangement using something like a MILAN ATGW in the side car.  The idea being that the team would operate in a short and scoot style way keeping ahead of Soviet tank hordes...

[GTX_Admin]

In a similar vein:

Hungarian WW2 motorcycle with antitank rifle sidecar:



Soviet M72 motorcycle with anti tank rifle:



Swiss Soldiers with 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle in tow:

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Last image is actually Swiss Soldiers and that is a Swiss 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle.  Html has video and history.

From Fandom > Gun Wiki > 24 mm Tankbüchse 41





***added additional link on subject. - jjf

[GTX_Admin]

Shoot and Scoot...


Also do not forget the French Vespa 159 TAP (Troupes AéroPortées) that is armed with a 75mm Recoilless Rifle used as the seat for the rider.

More at Wikipedia:

This is really small and I find the riding position amusing (look closely where the seat is):




One can theoretically get a kit of it in 1/35 too:



I say theoretically since it is a Azimut Limited Edition kit and thus nearly impossible to get any purchases from those thieves.

[GTX_Admin]

Last image is actually Swiss Soldiers and that is a Swiss 2.4cm (24x139mm) Tankbuchse 41 Semiauto Antitank Rifle.  Html has video and history.

Thanks fo the correction - have now updated.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The other "tell" was the helmets on the two soldiers :)

[GTX_Admin]

More:

20mm Madsen:





Answering my own question above, it seams as though this was a 37mm anti-tank gun being trialled - potentially over 400 of these were actually made:



And one showing the earlier Mortar in use:



From 1917 - Matchless Motorcycle with Machine Gun intended for Russian Army but not used:




NYC Women's Machine Gun Squad Police Reserves 1918:



Ckm wz.30 mounted on a Sokol 1000 sidecar with handle and sights adapted for Anti Aircraft Use:

[GTX_Admin]

Going back to the Hungarian one posted earlier, it seems there is an effort to produce a kit of this:



See here:  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dogtagminiatures/28mm-ww2-hungarian-army/updates

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The more manageable Solothurn S-18/100 20mm AT/AM Weapon chambered in 20X105B is also avaialble from CMK under their "Blitz" product line. 
Link: CMK (129-B35095) 1/35th scale WW2 Swiss Solothurn S-18/100 Anti Tank Rifle. 
Wikipedia > Solothurn S-18/100


CMK also offers a resin kit of the larger S-18/1000 that was chambered for the 20X138B cartridge with carriage/ground mount.  It has been hard to find since initial release.  I will say that it is a much appreciated improvement over the white metal kit that was offered years ago (company unknown) and the resin model kit from Criel Model of Italy which is a bit lean on details and also a bit too flimsy looking. 
Link: CMK (129-3140) 1/35th scale WW2 Solothurn 20mm Anti-Tank Rifle Solothurn S-18/1000 w/wheeled carriage.
Wikipedia > Solothurn S-18/1000 

[Story]

Anyone ever hear of a "Hell Cannon"?  Necessity being the mother of invention, it fires propane canisters filled with HE.
http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/05/diy-weapons-in-syria-hell-cannon.html


See also https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2015/08/21/hell-cannons-from-minor-nuisance-to-major-threat-the-evolution-of-syrian-opposition-siege-artillery/

Firing video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd6_qZ_TJ5A

Since the real ones are made out of spare parts and scrap (with lots of variations) it would seem to be an ideal 1:35th scale subject.  However, the trepidatious can always get this 1:72nd scale kit https://internethobbies.com/products/ace-military-1-72-hell-cannon-syrian-artillery-kit

[dy031101]

It looks like a 9P135M launcher modified to fire the Malyutka missile.  I don't know but am interest in who came up with it.

[Story]

Devil's Advocacy

Ammo
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2172990

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3811728

[GTX_Admin]

I'm putting this here as it seemed most appropriate:

2A42 30mm autocannon from a destroyed Russian BMD-2 IFV being added on an improvised mounting.

https://youtu.be/OaOO1JvnU7U - not sure about the barrel bending

Firing:

https://youtu.be/Wl2_rX3tEXs

[perttime]

When I was playing with mortars they were still all infantry.
Heres a clip of a Finnish 120 mm mortar squad with the task to fire a 60 second / 12 round offensive burst. The first round goes at 1:07 into the clip. They have a snag with a loose charge bag and the timing goes a little wrong at the end, so they don't fire a round on 60 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc

[Old Wombat]

I'm putting this here as it seemed most appropriate:

2A42 30mm autocannon from a destroyed Russian BMD-2 IFV being added on an improvised mounting.

https://youtu.be/OaOO1JvnU7U - not sure about the barrel bending

Firing:

https://youtu.be/Wl2_rX3tEXs

That firing sequence is scary!

Needs more mass at the front.

[Story]

Hotchkiss 1.65" (42mm) Mountain Howitzer

https://landships.activeboard.com/t66550594/42mm-hotchkiss-mountain-gun-with-field-carriage-limber/
https://archive.org/details/handbookforligh00dyergoog/page/n19/mode/2up

[Gingie]

When I was playing with mortars they were still all infantry.
Heres a clip of a Finnish 120 mm mortar squad with the task to fire a 60 second / 12 round offensive burst. The first round goes at 1:07 into the clip. They have a snag with a loose charge bag and the timing goes a little wrong at the end, so they don't fire a round on 60 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc

I guess if you're not going to bother checking the sights and re-laying the mortar after every round...hope its well bedded in!

[perttime]

When I was playing with mortars they were still all infantry.
Heres a clip of a Finnish 120 mm mortar squad with the task to fire a 60 second / 12 round offensive burst. The first round goes at 1:07 into the clip. They have a snag with a loose charge bag and the timing goes a little wrong at the end, so they don't fire a round on 60 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsYfOi42Mc

I guess if you're not going to bother checking the sights and re-laying the mortar after every round...hope its well bedded in!

They tend to be careful about getting the mortar bedded in.. And they check the sights and levels after every round.

[Story]

[Story]

When you absolutely, positively have to irritate a target have a 400 round pan for your Lewis.

[Story]

Czechoslovak experimental RPG with revolver 4 round magazine, 61mm, circa 1947 (Military history institute Prague - The army museum Žižkov)

[Story]

37mm Infantry Gun
https://i.imgur.com/beldNRp.mp4

https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1916-37mm-infantry-gun/

[perttime]

Some WWII time guns seen at a museum last weekend:
https://sakylantalvijajatkosotamuseo.fi/the_museum_of_winter_and_continuation_war/

- 20mm double anti-aircraft gun made by the Finnish "Valtion kivääritehdas" (State Rifle Factory)
- 37mm Bofors anti-tank gun
- 75mm M1917 gun and Soviet 20mm anti-aircraft gun

[GTX_Admin]

37mm Infantry Gun
https://i.imgur.com/beldNRp.mp4

https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1916-37mm-infantry-gun/

 

[Story]

15mm BESA on a ground mount. Interesting as it shows the scale comparison to men.

Imagine being wedged into a Vickers turret with that thing

[Old Wombat]

Not that bad, really. Could be a lot worse.

[robunos]

15mm BESA on a ground mount. Interesting as it shows the scale comparison to men.




Imagine being wedged into a Vickers turret with that thing

I wouldn't be that bad, Looking at the gun in my edited picture, the trunnion is inside the green circle, and everything inside the blue circle would be removed, as this only seems to be needed for the tripod mounted version.






and on the tank, again, the trunnion is inside the green circle, so there wouldn't really be that much of the weapon inside the turret . . .








cheers,
Robin.

[Story]

Answering my own question above, it seams as though this was a 37mm anti-tank gun being trialled - potentially over 400 of these were actually made:
 

Tripped over this just now

https://topwar.ru/15502-37-mm-aviadesantnaya-ptp-obrazca-1944-goda-chk-m1.html

[Story]

Silly NorKs

[Story]

Part of a discussion elsewhere about the King Howitzer (so started out as a land weapon), transitioned to a boat gun.
 http://gunneyg.info/html/KHp1.htm

[Story]

Gunnery training turrets in North Africa. Note the .303 SMLEs as subcaliber trainers

[apophenia]

Gunnery training turrets in North Africa. Note the .303 SMLEs as subcaliber trainers

Cool! That scene would make for an interesting little diorama 

[raafif]

Sweden & Switzerland among others are still doing this to modern turrets.

[Story]

Interesting weapons station.

[Story]

Towed .50 Browning, no further information.  Any guesses on what the baseline trailer was?

I see what looks like the lower half of a 37mm shield, two 250 round ammo boxes and the Browning T&E device.




Looks too-too to be a jeep trailer.

Looks Bastogne-ish vintage, so if I was surmising the backstory it was fabricated based on the memory of someone old enough (in 1944) to remember this
This tripod was made in Baltimore, Md., by Crown Cork & Seal Co

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/mr-browning-s-gun-the-u-s-model-of-1917-browning-machine-gun/

[apophenia]

... Looks too-too to be a jeep trailer...

Yeah, definitely too big to be a Bantam 1/4-ton. And it doesn't look anything like the official '50 Cal. Machine Gun Carts' - most of which were for transporting disassembled .50 cals anyway.

Most of the small US carts had spoked wheels. So, yeah, you've got a genuine puzzle here ... 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

It is an odd looking design for sure.  Wonder why they did not try to use one of the Infantry Hand Carts for this purpose? 

Links:

The Liberator > M3A4 Infantry Hand Cart
Hand Carts . Com > U.S. Army Hand Carts
Small Arms Review > M3A4 (M4A1) Hand Cart included on this site is an image of an hand cart configured to carry M2 .05" Browning HBMG broken down for transport on the cart. 

From Wikipedia

Group "A" (Automatic weapons, small mortars, carts, and light artillery
A42 - M3 and M3A4 hand cart, general utility.

M4 hand cart, M3 cart configured for transportation of .30-caliber M1917A1 Browning Machinegun.

M4A1 hand cart, M3A4 cart configured for transportation of .30-caliber M1917A1 Browning Machinegun.

M5 hand cart, M3 cart configured for transportation of .50-caliber M2 Browning Heavy Machinegun.

M5A1 hand cart, M3A4 cart configured for transportation of .50-caliber M2 Browning Heavy Machinegun.

M6 hand cart, M3 cart configured for transportation of 81mm M1 Medium Mortar.

M6A1 hand cart, M3A4 cart configured for transportation of 81mm M1 Medium Mortar.

[Story]

My guess is that it's a one-off made from something scrounged.

The frame is made from tube stock not box stock (as the US trailer was)

The wheel hubs don't look like those for the US 37mm AT gun, but neither do they look like those for a German PAK 37.

So, could it still be from non-US origins?

[ChalkLine]

Cold War MG-3 GPMG Multi-Mount. Bonus if you get the funky aviator sunnies on the crew

[ChalkLine]

Another to go with the above and quad mount. These would look good on the bed of a Mercedes Wolf

[ChalkLine]

My editing skills need some work

[ChalkLine]

37mm Infantry Gun
https://i.imgur.com/beldNRp.mp4

https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1916-37mm-infantry-gun/

 

This uses the standard barrel from the FT-17. I think the rest could be turned on the dremel at very low revs. As it's essentially a mini-Canon de 75 modčle 1897 on a Hotchkiss HMG mount there's a lot of data on the weapon and mount to work from.

[Story]

BRITISH FORCES IN THE MIDDLE EAST, 1945-1947
E 32044. A corporal of the 6th Airborne Division carries a First World War Austro-Hungarian Schwarzlose machine gun from a chicken shed where part of a hidden cache of weapons was found in the Jewish settlement of Doroth near Gaza


Note: that Schwarzlose weighs in at 41.4 kg (w tripod), so that's one strong paratrooper.

[ChalkLine]

Vz.53 Quad Mount DShK - Czechoslovakia

I was totally unaware of this system until now.

At 560kg weight this thing will fit on most vehicles. It does have a crew of of 4; gunner, loader x2, commander/spotter but really it can be fired by one and especially in the ground-to-ground role.

I'm seriously thinking this might go on a Czech gunboat in the future.

[GTX_Admin]

Lots of dakka-dakka!!

[Story]

Japanese 74-mm Type 4 anti-tank rocket launcher
https://en.topwar.ru/159322-protivotankovye-sredstva-japonskoj-pehoty-vo-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojne.html

[ChalkLine]

I never knew this existed

[GTX_Admin]

Neither did I

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Add me and that makes three that were unaware of this weapon system. 

[Story]

3,000 made in 1944

[GTX_Admin]

3,000 made in 1944

Now you are just rubbing it in....

[Story]

3,000 made in 1944

Now you are just rubbing it in....

Start on page 7 of this Technical Intelligence bulletin from 1946, doesn't mention where the sample was acquired.
https://www.ibiblio.org/pha/Pearl%20Talk/US-Naval-Technical-Mission-to-Japan-February-1946-US-Navy-World-War-II-Technical-Intelligence-Japan-O-56(N).pdf


Further doing the pages is a Japanese version of the Nebelwerfer that looks like it could be cobbled from spares box parts.



And for thread drift, here's a Jap rocket launcher on a triple 25mm AAA gun mount
https://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ%20Reports/USNTMJ-200F-0651-0662%20Report%20O-50%20N.pdf

Tell me it's not an easy build to add to some Australian Armor early 1945 vignette?

[ChalkLine]

8.8 cm Pak 43/3 from a Jagdpanther on a ground mount. Seems to be a combat mount and not a training mount by the nearby trenches.

[ChalkLine]

37mm Auto Cannon System McClean ("Maklen" in Russia)

One of the first if not the first gas-operated autocannon. Built by the same McLean who did the original design work on the Lewis Gun, this weapon was built in the standard 37mm, 47mm & 57mm calibres although only the 37mm saw use as far as I can find out. Used only by Imperial Russia and everyone in The Russian Civil War and the wars at that time on Russia's periphery. In Russia it was called the 'ZTD Maklen Gun' and used on ground mounts and on armoured trains, usually on improvised mounts.

This weapon did not fire the ubiquitous Hotchkiss 37x94mmR round but the far more potent 37x137mmR used by the US Navy and could perforate any 1919 combat vehicle out to 3,000m. It was fired from five round clips at either single shot or 100rpm.

As far as I know the only existing weapons are all in Russia.

[ChalkLine]

For silliness here's the monster 57mm version.

[ChalkLine]

For completion, here's McLean's HMG, this being the name for purely heavy mount MGs at the time. It's one of the very few MGs that scavenged the waste steam, condensed it and fed it back into the cooling jacket as nearly all water jacket MGs are constant-loss water systems. Definitely the most steampunk weapon ever made. I don't think it was ever used by anyone.
McLean didn't create that gas system, that was a Hotchkiss patent.

[GTX_Admin]

8.8 cm Pak 43/3 from a Jagdpanther on a ground mount. Seems to be a combat mount and not a training mount by the nearby trenches.

Another shot:

[GTX_Admin]

Someone modelled it

[ChalkLine]

Someone modelled it

How cool is that?
I like the basing method too.

[Dr. YoKai]

For silliness here's the monster 57mm version.

 I knew of the 37mm McClean cannon, but the larger versions are a revelation.

[perttime]

Somebody posted a postcard on FB: an Oerlikon gun at Lohtaja, Finland, in 1978.

[Story]

Haven't run the numbers yet, but this strikes me as a candidate for an out-of-scale build using a 1/24th for a 1/35th.



https://smallarmsreview.com/germanys-ultra-rare-mg18-the-13mm-maxim-t-u-f-mg-tank-und-fleigerabwehr-machine-gun-of-wwi/

[perttime]

76 mm, or "three incher", light field gun Model 1902, of Russian origin, mounted as a memorial to Finnish soldiers who fought in the wars of 1438-1439, 1596-1597, 1808-1809, 1918, 1939-1940 and 1941-1945.

[Story]

Commonwealth trench mortar in Macedonia or Egypt




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWfaHnVdjtA

[GTX_Admin]